Horizontal Menu Bar

The Four Living Creatures Throughout the Bible

The Foundation of God’s Triumphant Restoration Plan[s] (Num 2|Ezek 1&10|Rev 4)

            The mention of the Four, frankly freaky, Living Creatures in especially a New Testament context and in direct association with God’s Throne in e.g., Rev 4:6b-11 can candidly lead one to ask: “What is going on here?” To think of God’s throne as involving animals such as a Lion, Ox, and Eagle, and also Man, -animals/creatures which are indeed objects of reverence/worship and self-worship by man as it can be seen today in the emblem and insignias of world countries and seats of government, feels like it borders on the sacrilegious/blasphemous. One would expect such association with adversarial entities as seen elsewhere in the prophecies of especially Daniel and Revelation, however it is here deliberately and most prominently associated with the Throne of God. It happens, that, as with anything else that is mentioned in Bible prophecy, the key to understanding what is being communicated here lies in interpreting the symbols.

            Probably in a “self-imposed” redemptive attempt to make logical sense out of these 4 Living Creatures, Most NT interpreters, throughout Church History, have made the traditional claim that these 4 creatures are symbols for the 4 gospels. So in this way it is commonly said that “to John is attributed the Eagle; to Luke the Ox, to Mark the Lion, and to Matthew the Man, or angel in human form.” (Adam Clarke Commentary on Rev 4:7 (early 1800's) - these identifications may differ with others). While that is a surfacely plausible understanding, as reflected by its common/popular citing amongst Christians still today, it, exegetically, is really only that, a surface understanding. A more indepth study, indeed in the symbolism involved here help to arrive at its Biblical understanding.

The Four Living Creatures in General
            First of all, significantly stating what the 4 Living Creatures are not, as commonly assumed, they are not the Seraphim, for (1) the Seraphim have six wings (Isa 6:2a), while the 4 Living Creatures first have 4 in the OT (Ezek 1:6) but/yet then six in the NT (Rev 4:8); (2) two of the OT four wings of the 4 Living Creatures have different functions than for the Seraphim, namely to ‘cover their body’ (Ezek 1:11, 23), versus the face and feet as with the Seraphim (Isa 6:2b). Not sure what is the function of their extra 2 wings given in the NT. And while the 4 Living Creatures also have ‘two free wings with which they manifestly could fly’, because they have a human hand (Ezek 1:8; 10:8, 21) under their wing which is preventing them to fly, that thus impedes their ability to use them for flying on their own. So this indeed thus shows through this ‘human interference’ and ‘inability for them to fly on their own with their wings’ that it indeed is only is ‘Divine power which can give success’ here (~4BC 1161.1). And thus also is the use of an alternative, Heavenly technology, powered-cloud system to fly (Ezek 1:4; cf. Acts 1:9a), as well as, also neededly, wheels to move about once they have touched down on Earth (Ezek 1:15-21). Yet these Four Living Creatures use those ‘free-but-impeded’ wings to make the sound of “many waters” (Ezek 1:24; 10:5) which anticipatively is representative of God’s final, populous (i.e., widely accepted), ‘everlasting Covenant of Peace’ triumph. (Ezek 43:2; EW 34.1; 285.1; etc). (See my comments in this forum discussion post for the identity/function of “Seraphim”). Nonetheless, it could actually be the case that with the successful (eschatological) “touching down” on Earth of the 4-winged 4 Living Creatures/Cherubim of Ezekiel, or simply with them having been committed to that Earthly mission (=Rev 7:1-3; 9:13-15; cf. Ezek 37:9-10ff), the angels from, or, which make up, the 6-winged Seraphim group have been promoted to fill in that vacated position as the 4 Living Creatures in God’s presence. And in turn 4 other angels were specially outfitted and promoted to become Seraphim.
            Now using already established general Advanced Prophetic Symbology here, it can be seen that with the three animals that are mentioned are all land-based animals. I.e., no sea creatures are named, as they could, and should have been made, if ‘all of God’s creation’ was to be represented here. So with the Lion being the Chief of Land Beast and the Eagle being the Chief of Birds with its superior speed (Jer 48:40; 2 Sam 1:23; Lam 4:19; Hab 1:8) and redoubtable strength/power (Isa 40:31; Jer 49:16; also Psa 103:5)[1] attributes, one would expect that e.g., the Shark or Whale would have been named to complete this comprehensive “all animals/creatures” representation, instead of the ‘land-beast redundant’ Ox. Indeed with the mention of a Man, this representation of ‘all of God’s earthly-created beings’ would be complete. So this manifestly is not the intent here. However, as shown in this post, with the symbols of the Lion (land beast) and the Eagle (Bird), we have here two creatures that exert great and dominant force on the earth, i.e,. land masses, where people live. The Lion is the King of Beasts and as such is a fittingly symbol for the “Chief of Land Kingdoms/Government.” The Eagle, though not having concrete land/territorial dominance as the Lion, not only dominates the air, and thus as such can easily enter into all land areas, it also can exert pointed power upon the earth when needed, as seen in its ability to catch formidable land preys (even a young lion). Thus it is this projectionable speed and power and achieved security aspects of the Eagle that is key in its use as a symbol. (Clearly if a solely spiritual/religious aspect had been meant to be conveyed here, the symbol of a dove would have been used for a bird representation.)
            The most straightforward of the four faces is that of the "face of man." There should not be seen any hidden meaning here as it clearly is a reference to the crowning creation of God, intelligently-created human beings (Genesis 2:5-25). Nothing is more essential to the establishment and continuity of the Kingdom of God than humans who (a) love Him and (b) love their fellow humans, i.e., who live according to all of His Loving Commandments (Matthew 22:37-40; cf. 7:12). It is not surprisingly that, even in today’s advanced and technological age and everyday life, nothing makes ‘the world go round’ (so to speak) more than this human factor. It is thus imperative that proper personal and interpersonal relationships and interactions be upheld and maintained.
            So how does the Ox fit in this “Chief of” symbolism, which, it can readily be seen involves Man as the “Chiefest” of all of God Creation?

The Face of an Ox
            While the LXX/NT Greek basically has one common word for an Ox as moschou the Hebrew OT used 4 major words to depict the Ox its various stages and use during its life. Cattle in general was called the baquar - Strong’s #1241. The (male) Ox, the head of cattle, normally castrated to make it more tractable was called shor #7794. The Bull (the non-castrasted ox), thus not relegated to field work was called par #6499. And the young of the bull/cattle, the calf, was an egel #5695.
            The ox that is mentioned in Ezekiel refers particularly to the field-working/sacrificial animal (#7794). In the history of Ancient Israel, the ox was valuable to both the people’s everyday well being as well as their religious life. The ox did most of the laborious field chores which could result in great prosperity (Prov. 14:4). It was therefore mentioned as one of the things that should not be coveted from a neighbor (Exod 20:17). So great was the significance of the ox to the people that it was once infamously raised to a godlike stature in the incidence of the "golden calf" (see Psa 106:19-22 = Exod 32).
            In the ordained religious service, the ox was prescribed as a sacrificial animal for the very important "peace offering." (Lev 4:10; 9:4, 18). The peace offering was a freewill offering of thanksgiving to God. It celebrated the fact that a state of peace existed which could result in God’s full blessing. The Hebrew word for the “peace offering” (shelem) is from the root "sh-l-m" (e.g., "shalom-peace") which expresses in its meanings: "completion, fulfillment, wholeness, unity, restored relationship." Thus "peace" became a most important blessing in the covenant between God and His people. (See Isa 54:10; Ezek 34:25 [Num 25:12]; Psa 85:8; Mal. 2:5; Num 6:24-26), and the epitomic, capital city of Israel was named: Jerusalem- the city of peace. (Later when Jesus, at the Triumphal Entry, wept over the city because they had failed to enter into covenant with Him, He particularly lamented the fact that, ‘the things which would make for Jerusalem’s peace had, "as of now, been hidden from their eyes" and that future destruction was coming. (Luke 19:41-44)). So from just these biblical examples of the significance of the ox in Israel’s socio-religious "economy," it can be seen that the ox was directly and indirectly tied the covenant between God and His people. A covenant whose promises delivered great spiritual, physical and material prosperity.
            A very interestingly substitution in Ezekiel concretely seals the paramountly religious significance of the ox symbol. In his description of the four faces in Ezek 10:14 three of the four faces are mentioned again as they appear in Ezek 1:10 except for the face of the ox which is now depicted as the face of a cherub. The first image that come to one’s mind at the mention of the cherub is the image of the angels positioned on top of the Ark of the Covenant, (Exod 25:18-21 cf. 1 Kgs 6:23-28) the seat of God’s presence within the Israelites. (Exod 25:22; Num 7:89; 2 Sam 6:2; 2 Kgs 19:15; cf. Ezek 9:3). The function and position of the cherubim (plural) indicates that they were entrusted with the protection of the presence and covenant of God. In fact, after Adam and Eve sinned and were driven out of the Garden of Eden, "[God] stationed the cherubim, and the flaming sword ... to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen 3:24).[2]
            So based on all of these references, it can be seen that the face of the ox/cherub stands for the covenant of God and its safeguarding and embodies the religious, spiritual and the resulting cultural aspects of a people of God (= God’s Covenant of Peace) which is guaranteed to be accompanied by the granting of God’s rich spiritual and temporal blessings (cf. the endtime application in GC 637).

Summary of Four Faces Symbols
            Based on these above identification, it can be seen that God has here chosen the 4 most prominent of His creation that have a most authoritative effect on the land masses where people born in this world live. Thus the Lion dominates all other land beasts; the Ox contributed mainly to production by helping to develop and cultivate the land and also came to have a cultic meaning by how it was incorporated into Israel’s religious economy, -the only one of these three creatures to be so utilized; the Eagle rules the skies and exerts tangible and fearful power on the land through its combination of speed and power, and Man is suppose to, and is capable of, dominating all of these land creatures (cf. Gen 1:26, 28), and thus is the one that has the most determinative impact on the land masses and space that it shares with these other creatures.
            So how does this all relate to the Throne of God?

The Standards of Israel
            In the beginning of the book of Numbers, as Israel is now officially organized as a set apart Nation of God, it is said that the 12 tribes were to divide into 4 camps of 3 tribes, with each camp having a “standard/banner” (see Num 1:52; 2:2)  Thus the Camps of Judah, Reuben, Ephraim and Dan each had a different standard. What is interesting here is that, while the Biblical text is not indicative as to what was inscribed on these standards, there is a tradition in the Jewish Talmud that says that upon these standards were the images of a Lion (Judah), Ox/Calf (Ephraim), Eagle (Dan) and a Man (Reuben).

Ezekiel Mentions
            It is however in the mentions of these symbols in the prophetic book of Ezekiel (1:10 & 10:14) as a foundation for a moving Throne of God which is endeavoring to settle upon the earth that, the concrete significance of this symbol can be seen. As it was with Israel of old, as God is endeavoring to again re-establish His people as a whole nation these 4 Living Creatures are brought to the forefront again. In this it can be seen that these represent the “Faces” that God wanted Israel to present to the rest of the world all according to His redemptive purposes. The Face of a Lion can be seen as representing the National/Political power and influence that Israel should have had upon other nations of the world. The Ox was representative of the Religious and Cultural standard that Israel should set for other Peoples. The Eagle was a symbol of the optimal ascendency that God envisioned for His people, through the Spiritual and Temporal Superiority that He would grant them all resulting in their prosperity and security. (See Exod 19:4; Deut 32:9-13ff; Isa 40:31; 58:14; cf. Rev 12:14). As Man, that was supposed to reflect the image of God that he was created in (Gen 1:26), godliness in every aspect of his life was to be present and modelled to other, also exerting a taming/controlling influence on all of these other 3 beings. This latter understanding can be seen in the fact that these Creatures all had human forms/bodies (Ezek 1:5). Moreover their legs were straight, no doubt like man’s, however the “soles of their feet” were like calf’s (#5695) hoofs. It is significant that the calf was only used in sacrifice when the Aaron/Levite priesthood was being inaugurated for a sin and burnt offering (Lev 9:2-3, 8). The only previous time that a calf was mentioned in the Bible is with the episode of the Golden Calf in Exod 32 (cf. Deut 9:16, 21; Neh 9:18; Psa 106:19), so this use in the consecration of Aaron and the Levites may have been a commemoration of the stand against the Golden Calf idol that these sons|descendants of Levi had wholly taken at that time (Exod 32:25-28; Num 3:12-13) So this mention of ‘the soles as being the hoofs of a calf’ may be a symbol of this stance which would be the basis and enable these living creatures to, as the symbol of “feet” indicate, both take there stand and go about their mission. So it all would start from a whole devotion to the worship of the True God.
            So it can be seen that these 4 Living Creatures, made up of leading, formidable and valuable “land powers”, forming the foundation of God’s Throne, was a symbolic representation of the multifaceted glory, power and dominance that God had always wanted to effectuate upon the Earth through a wholly dedicated and faithful nation and religious community of Israel, as prophetically related in e.g., Isa 60. Still (1) in the fact that in Ezekiel 10 these 4 living creatures are synonymously referred to as Cherubim, with the most “religious” of these four creatures, the ox, being completely replaced with the face of a cherub, and (2) with these creatures each having the form of a hand under their wings, which was to “teach God's servants that it is divine power that gives success” (PK 176.1)  it can be seen that God was going to achieve this spectacular ascendency solely and necessarily, through faith in, and adherence to, His Godly principles.

Here is a table of the Four Living Creatures with the Standards of the Tribes of Israel based upon reliable Jewish tradition. (The Remnant (SDA) identification will be explained later.)

Four Living Creatures & Camp Location
Application of Four Living Creatures
            Based on all of these identifications, the specific application that each of these Living Creatures were to have in Israel.


-The Lion identified with the Eastern standard of Judah was to be the camp of leadership (Gen 49:9-10), and understandably in whatever manifestation that this was to be as time advanced (e.g., monarchial, political)

-The Man was to be the Southern standard of Reuben. As the firstborn/eldest son of Jacob, it was to have preeminence in “dignity and power” as he was no doubt expected to be an exemplary model to his young siblings, however he lost this most favorable position through its family dishonoring failings. (Gen 49:3). As “uncontrollable waters” (Gen 49:4) which is also symbolic of peoples (Rev 17:15), it was thus fitting to represent the man/human aspect that Israel had to bring under the influence of God in order to triumph as a people.

-The western camp of Israel was interestingly enough made up of the progenity of Rachel with Joseph’s two sons and Benjamin making up that camp. Just like the Levites had by their faithfulness in all of Israel been award with the priestly functions of Israel, Joseph, by faithfully enduring the ordeal that his jealous brothers had put him through with his slave-selling to Egypt, which came to preserve and save all of Israel, had thus merited the favor and blessing of God. (Gen 49:22-26) He was thus assigned, in a double portion way this key covenant preserving and productivity symbol of the Living Creatures. Ephraim being the son who was named for this blessing of fruitfulness (Gen 41:52) was to be the Ox standard bearer for this western camp.

-The Northern camp was under the standard of Dan. The tribe of Dan was to be the one to administer judgement in Israel and keep Israel “on its toes” so to speak, (Gen 49:16-17) perhaps until the monarchy was later established (cf. Deut 17:14-15).[3] It is significant that in properly administering judgement, great knowledge and wisdom has to be possessed and demonstrated, with also enforceable power. Such knowledge and wisdom can lead to many signal victories in defeating even a superior and more powerful foe.[4] This was repeatedly demonstrated in the history of Israel. As such this power and ability to overcome even significant obstacles is seen in the way that an Eagle is able to hold its ground amongst land beasts through its keen combination of speed and power. This is thus a fitting symbol for the wisdom and knowledge resulting in achievements of speed and power that Israel should have made had it remained faithful. I.e., Israel should have been the nation where the world turned for knowledge and discoveries in e.g, sciences. So the standard of Dan as the Eagle was to represent the speedy, powerful and wise/just advances that Israel could make if it remained within God’s will.

Moving/Marching Order of the Four Living Creatures
            As deliberately emphasized in Num 2, the order in which the tribes of Israel were to march out of their encampment, whether to simply move or to march out in a military conflict, was specifically set. Interestingly enough, even if when going off to war, the camp of the Levites with the ark, was central to Israel’s conquest.
            While the naming of these 4 living creatures occurs 3 explicit times in the Bible, with a fourth being understood in Numbers 2, the naming order is never the same. More careful study shows that this may have been deliberate showing the readjusted order through which God intended to achieve this triumph of Israel. (Interestingly enough, the Eagle is consistently always last.)

Bible's Four Faces Orders
Numbers 2
            The (implicit) naming in Numbers 2, being the first mention, was logically clearly God’s ideal for Israel. In bringing them out of Egypt and establishing them as a separate nation and independent country (which would have taken only a few weeks instead of 40 years due to their disobedience), the Lion aspect of their advance was thus achieved. Following this, by adhering to God’s Laws, they were to perfect the interpersonal relationships that God wanted them to achieve. In this way, by the pivotal time of the coming of the Messiah, they would have been ready to move on to their next advances that God had planned for them. Indeed thirdly, following the priestly antitypical advent of the Messiah would come the beginning of the era of God’s Covenant of Peace tangibly seen in the blessing of even more prosperity that God wanted to complete with them. Following all of this, and lastly, was a crowning act of their ascendency, Israel’s rearguard (cf. Num 10:25) would be in their speedy and power projection of this National, Social and Religious/Cultural superiority upon all other nations, as symbolized by the majestic, dominant and powerful Eagle.

OT Israel Order
            However as Israel became quite unfaithful, indeed failing at the second stage of perfecting themselves socially because of their ignorance of God’s law, this planned advanced was not realized and so, at a later time, another plan was attempted to be implemented.

Ezekiel 1
            The mention in Ezek 1:10 occurs at a time when God was seeking to establish His throne in Israel, however as seen in the symbolism of a storm wind in Ezek 1:4, God Throne was coming from the North in needed judgement against Israel, in specifically here, the remaining kingdom tribe of Judah. With, as seen in the ministry and message of Amos to the 10 Northern Tribes, Israel having failed at the socio-economic/humanitarian Man stage in the first ascendency approach of Numbers 2, this is where God was thus going to begin to try to reform them. If that was successful, following this would be the reorganization of the nation as a physical kingdom of 12 tribes under the Lion standard. With all of this planned to be done in the ca. 600 years that remained until the advent of the Messiah (=Ezek 48), the original plan of Num 2 could then be followed as planned.
            However this reformatory attempt of God in Ezek 1 was also frustrated as Judah refused to listen to the counsel of Ezekiel as related in chapters leading up to the utter destruction Ezek 9. So following this judgement God effectively had to start from scratch with His Israel and thus came the 3rd plan as ordered in Ezekiel 10.

Ezekiel 10
            Quite literally, as seen in the reforms of Ezra following the return of Judah from Babylon, God had to first reestablish His covenant with this remnant of Israel, indeed to wholly dispel the overwhelming influence that Babylon had had on it during its captivity there. Hence the symbolism of a Cherub, replacing the Ox, as the first step, thus rebuilding their religious economy, and that through, as it actually should have been, an actually more Messianic slant on the Old Covenant as found in the message of Ezekiel (chaps. 40-48) which including the plans for the new/rebuilt Temple. Then, (and thus), Israel would have to perfect itself socially in preparation for the advent of the Messiah. Following this, they would/could be reorganized as a once again independent nation of 12 tribes and then could come an era of spreading out this national superiority unto other nations under the Eagle era.
            This Returning remnant of Israel was on track to accomplish this ascendency plan, however they got bogged down in, as seen in the various reforms that Jesus had to do in His ministry, not having perfected the interpersonal and social relationships that they should have had by then. So that plan too was frustrated before Israel could regain its previously enjoyed national stature.

Revelation 4
            The mention of the 4 Living Creatures in Revelation 4 occurs in New Covenant context.
Christ first sought to accomplish this ascendency by establish literally 12 new tribes of Israel in the 12 Apostles. He then delivered the new covenant to them and then sealed this whole new start with His antitypical death and Heavenly Priestly Ministry (see e.g., Heb 9:11-12ff, 23-26; 10:19-25). Next was to come the period of perfected interpersonal relationships which was indeed achieved by the Apostolic Church (cf. e.g., Acts 2:43-47; 4:32-35). And then came their successful dispersing of these superior ways throughout the world (cf. James 1:1) as seen in the global spread and success of Christianity, to the point where today, it is nations who have these Judeo-Christian principles at their base, (namely western countries) that have manage to achieve global prominence. All of this National Israel could have become, and much more, if it itself had become a “Christian Nation” at the time of its Visitation in the First Century A.D. (Cf. Matt 23:37; Luke 19:41-42)
            However, as with Ancient Unfaithful Israel, these Godly principles have been perverted with ungodly ones, causing them to, ever increasingly, be the source of strife, conflict and failure in these nations. So the actual witness that these 4 Faces of God’s ideal for his Earthly Creation has yet to be given in its proper and full light, and thus today such a reform of these 4 Entities in our world today needs to be done, in an Eschatological era. This is indeed the foundational goal of the NJK Project.

Application to Jesus Christ
            While earlier, the traditional/common application of the Four Living Creatures in Revelation 4 with the Gospels themselves as John = Eagle, Luke = Ox, Mark = Lion, and Matthew = Man, was said to be inaccurate, a more direct application with the different “facets” of Jesus Christ (i.e., the Messiah of Israel) is however considered to be much more Biblical/exegetical. As it has been shown, these Four Living Creatures represent the four aspects of Power/Dominance/Perfection/Holiness (i.e., in a Eagle/Lion/Man/Ox) that God expected to result from Israel so that He could literally set His Throne in their midst. God attempted to accomplish this from several different approaches, as the “situation in the nation” necessitated, but these failed in a literal aspect. With the advent of the Messiah this was, at least spiritually, partly accomplished.
            In the Person of Jesus Christ however, these Four Aspects of God’s Throne were present as He sought to accomplish God’s perfect redemptive will through Israel. As so, it can be seen that: Christ’s Kingship as the royal descendant of David is seen in the Lion (=Judah Standard), Christ’s miracle working power which indeed allowed Him to accomplished great feats in speed and power can be seen in the Eagle (Dan); the fact that God became a Man in Jesus in order to establish and model the perfection that God expected from His created people including in their interpersonal relationships is represented by the Man (Reuben); and the culminating, antitypical Covenant of Peace between God and Man that Jesus was able to mediate through his holy life and Priesthood, which enabled Israel to receive all of the temporal and spiritual blessings that God had in mind for it, is represented in the Ox (Ephraim).
            Through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, an indirect association with the Gospel for these possessed/demonstrated facets of Jesus Christ can then be made as follows, as the four Gospel writers were obviously selected and/or inspired to write their accounts from either a personally natural and/or impressed perspective. As such:

-Matthew, who wanted to show his primarily Jewish audience that Jesus was the promised/prophesied Royal son of David, did indeed write His Gospel from a messianic/kingly perspective. He therefore related the Lion (Judah) aspect of Christ.

-Peter, who it is believed was the (needed) credible/authoritative (versus ‘carefully investigated’ Luke 1:1-4) source of the Gospel account recorded by his ‘Spiritual son’ Mark (cf. Acts 12:12; 1 Pet 5:13b), wanted to impress his temporally “power/might and (relative) speed (efficiency)” -jaded Roman audience with the superior “power and speed/efficiency” contained in one Man, Jesus Christ, thus focused his “efficient” Gospel account upon the miraculously powerful works and accomplishments of Jesus Christ. Thus He related the Eagle (Dan) facet of Jesus.

-Luke who wanted to impress his apparently “seeking” Gentile, Roman Official (the “Most Excellent” Theophilus) primary recipient of his account with the tangible model humanity of Jesus Christ, thus the ideal of any man of any stature or position, even more perfect and impressive than the leaders of the known world then (i.e., Roman officials). As such his account related the Man (Reuben) facet of Jesus.

-It is generally believed that John wrote his most theological Gospel account after he received (i.e., as a result of) the Revelation visions. He thus concretely saw, what up to then was mostly/chiefly and comprehensively/generally accepted by (albeit variously confirmed e.g., Matt 17:1-8; 2 Pet 1:16-21) faith, that Jesus had indeed a Most High position with God both before and after His incarnation. Such revelations probably brought back to mind many theological things/sayings that had occurred during the time when Jesus was amongst them which had literally sailed right over his head then, but now, in this light, made perfect sense as he finally “got it.” And so he sought to write his most unique Gospel account from this theological perspective. This is therefore why his account contains so many references to the sacrificial/atoning aspect of Christ ministry, indeed having the most extensive account of the Sacrificial Death of Jesus. And so, from this perspective, John related the rich spiritual blessings of the Ox (Ephraim) facet of Christ.


The Historical Church Application and Order (=4 Living Creatures & 4 Horsemen (Rev 6)
            In the unsealing of the 7-Sealed Scroll of Rev 6, which, as discussed in detail in this post, was given to set out a (new) Historical/Prophetic course for the post-70 A.D. Christian Church, as they had not become ready to usher in, as “plannedly” prophesied and expected, the Second Coming of Christ and Kingdom of God around the time of the 70 A.D. (Local/literal) “Apocalyptic” (Christian and Jerusalem “persecution & tribulation”) events (e.g. Matt 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). And so, as presented later, God’s “local/literal”, Four Living Creature plans (Ezek 10) had to be suspended and re-drawn/ordered. And that is what is done in Rev 6, -all upon the crisis to have that Church History be actuated in Rev 5.
            And so now, in Rev 6, as this is in a purely/entirely New Covenant Context where, as discussed here from clear expositions like Rom 9-11, God’s Israel is no longer (merely) a local/literal/ethnic entity, but, as God has always wanted (e.g. Isa 56:6-8), a worldwide/Spiritual/all-inclusive gathering of also Gentiles. (It just did not have to be, what it gradually increasingly became due to the unbelieving hardness of the hearts of Jews, so unbalanced in regards to Gentile Converts vs. Jewish-Christians), God then no longer has a national Israel entity as He had during the Old Covenant to do this Evangelistic and Militaristic Kingdom marshalling. He instead now has a Church, and so works with that type of Entity, producing, as per the prophetic symbology of a “horse” and, derivedly ‘horsemen’, “Church Militant” which is to end up becoming upon being victorious: the Church Triumphant (cf. here). Thus, initially a non-nationalistic entity which spreads throughout the world to proclaim this Kingdom of God message, and then, when the fulness of the Gentiles has been brought in, restores (=Luke 21:22, 24), (as repackagedly, derivedly presented in Rev 11 (see this post)), the (albeit non-literalistic) “fortunes/position” of God’s (redemptively purposeful) Zionistic (New) Jerusalem. Therefore, in this New Covenant context, the Four Living Creatures mentioned in Rev 4:7 do not, as in their Old Covenant Ezek 1 & 10 appearance, lead in this Israel Kingdom conquering and establishing endeavor and expedition by God. They instead, as seen in Rev 6:1, 3, 5, 7 take a “back seat” to the 4 Horsemen, effectively sending them on this Militant Mission, much like an Army General and his foot soldiers. This (“corresponding”) relationship between the Four Living Creatures and these Four Horsemen is presented in greater details within this post, but it is here succinctly, summarily set out:

(1) Face of Lion Living Creature = White Horse (Rev 4:7a = Rev 6:1)
(2) Face of Ox Living Creature = Red Horse (Rev 4:7b = Rev 6:3)
(3) Face of Man Living Creature = Black Horse (Rev 4:7c = Rev 6:5)
(4) Face of (flying) Eagle Living Creature = Ashen/(Sickly) Pale Horse (Rev 4:7d = Rev 6:7)

            The ironic thing here is that by the 4th Seal/Horseman Era, all hope was lost in the now unsalvageably corrupt New Covenant Israel (=(Roman) Catholic Church), and so, as it was the case in Jesus’ own endeavors, God now pivotally turned the 4th “Eagle” Era (Rev 6:8 = “Dark Ages”) of what was due to be great, impelling Spiritual Validation Gifting and Miracles (=Isa 58:8-12; 61:1-4ff; Luke 4:17-21 =(Ethnic) Israel’s Pentecostal Latter Rain), into an Era of internal “Divine-avenging” (=Isa 61:2b versus Luke 21:22 (see DA 240.4ff).
            This sudden “pivotally turned” development is confirmingly seen in  the historically parallel/corresponding 4th Trumpet (Rev 8:12-13 -discussed within here), .where that “flying Eagle” is then explicitly cited, for it then is (as presented in this Eschatologically-applying post), is warning of the “Three Woes” which God is now going to, “Supernaturally” if necessary, bring about to even more fully effectuate this avenging on this priorly righteous and supernaturally-assisted/protected NT Israel (Rev 12:6, 14, 16) which has become, through indifferent, even likewise persecutive, assimilations (cf. Rev 17:1-7), the (second-phased) Babylon of Rev 17&18. A prior permitted period of partly supernatural Darkness (cf. Isa 29:9-15 =Dark Ages) was enough to gradually eat away at the power of the Historical Roman Catholic phase of this Babylon, but now, in the 5th-7th (=Rev 8:13ff) Eras, greater Supernatural intervention will be neededly dealt out to fully bring down what this Babylon has pervertingly established in this (present) world age.

            And so it is seen from all of this that God is, also in the New Covenant Era, right down through today, indeed continuing His 4-Step Israel Kingdom plans, as attempted during the Old Covenant, however in the NC He has had to first start of with a Church Militant, yet all under the guidance of those 4 Living Creatures entity which provide the thematic objective for each of these Militant Horses/Horsemen. And as the “time of the Gentiles” was completed by 1798 A.D.  -at the ending of the permitted historical “42 months” period in Rev 11:2 (=Rev 13:5); God has from then on been re-attempting to effectuate through, as presented next below, a Truth & Mission re-formed (Apostolic) Remnant (Rev 12:17; 14:12) His Zionistic Jerusalem plans (cf. Rev 3:12), likewise starting with a Militant Church, but culminating in a Triumphant Church which most naturally accomplishes the Kingdom Plans (=Rev 11:15-18).


The Remnant Church Spiritual Application and Order
            With the prophecies of Revelation expected to have an eschatological application, starting with Rev 4:1, as discussed in this blog post, and in an induced “vision of the night” type of revelation (a 19th vision, received around the close of the Sabbath on November 4, 2000[5]), it was incorporatively/implicitly demonstrated, as shown in the Table below, that a Eagle-Lion-[Sanctuary]-Man-Ox/Cherub order was potentially applicable with the then current Remnant Church, the SDA Church, also involving an application of Dan 11:44. (It was also therein, simultaneously, implicitly demonstrated the cardinal points, encampment associations/identifications that is mentioned in Jewish tradition (see in first Table above), in the Talmud, which I personally only became aware of 10 years later.)[6]

Remnant Church Order
             What is interesting here is that this “Remnant Church” spiritual order of these, as detailed above, meaning-rich Four Living Creatures, is that it is identical to the (accepted) chronological order in which the Gospel accounts were written, thus the way in which Jesus Christ was gradually revealed to the wider world. This widely-accepted Gospel account namely is as: Mark-Matthew-Luke-John, thus a Eagle-Lion-Man-Ox/Cherub order. The spiritual meaning that can be seen from this is that:
-Firstly God started the Remnant Church Movement, i.e., starting in 1844 through the miraculous gift of the Spirit of Prophecy. As discussed in this post, this increasingly has come to enabled this fragile group of Bible Believers to overcome tremendous obstacles in establishing a relatively vibrant and thriving Remnant Church movement that has overachievedly, globally done much more than normatively expected for such a relative small number. This thus fullfilled the “speed and power” contained in the Eagle facet of God’s Israel and Christ/the Gospel.

-Secondly, from a small group of believers, through formal organization and “Gospel Order”, indeed patterned after the Order seen in God’s OT Israel, the Remnant Church has been able to achieve a well-structured and internally solid global presence for this end time movement.

-It is however here, and quite typically enough as with OT Israel, that things have literally broken down. The full effect of the Gospel message, through the sanctifying work of the preached Sanctuary/Investigative Judgement message of this Remnant Church should have resulted in the Perfect/Model Man ‘“Character of Christ” to be perfectly reproduced in His Remnant Church.’ (COL 69.1). However this has not been the case and as stated in this, here posted, June 2000 message, this would, and has proven to be, the Achille’s Heel/Waterloo/Border of Canaan failure of this Remnant Movement. The thorough and effective humanitarian Gospel Work that this Church can do, through mainly a perfected, Godly interpersonal association and collaboration has not been done as the “demand” and “ways” of this world and its socio-economic systems have been deemed to be more “Worthy” As stated in the SOP:

“The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church.--5T 81.1 (1882) [LDE 173, 174]

            Just like the first century Jews did not spiritually discern the ‘time of their visitation’ and thus not ‘recognize the things that belonged to their peace’ (Luke 19:42, Matt 23:37), this Church, through an either willful or subservient reverential worshipful adherence and/or “yielding” to the evil system of Capitalism and its pervasively diffused ways have made void the Law and Covenant of God. (= the Mark of the Beast’s - “in the forehead” or “on the hand”). As such, it, unless it zealously repents, like OT Israel, is no longer in a position to timely fulfill and have accomplish the various promises and prophecies of God to this Remnant Movement. And so others will be chosen to accomplish this achievable Most Glorious work. And so the Man (Full Sabbatical Aspects) and Ox/Cherub (Temporal Blessing and Covenant of Peace) facets of God’s Israel Gospel Plans were not fulfilled with this failed movement.


The “Pivotality” of the Tabernacle
            As mentioned in passing in the above discussion, it is quite significant to observe the pivotal role that the Tabernacle, which was to be dedicatedly administered by the “Levites” in order to avert God’s wrath upon the rest of the people (Num 1:53), had in all of the above-discussed 5 distinct attempts/efforts of God to seek to fully establish His Israel as always intentioned. It is because of this “pivotality” that the Tabernacle was to set out, symbolically enough, in the middle of Israel’s moving or military processions (Num 2:17). As the Bible amply documents, the Tabernacle/Sanctuary was to serve as the tangible sanctifying means for God’s people. It was also, through its annual Day of Atonement judging service, serve to investigatively evaluate the people to see if they had indeed thoroughly done this sanctifying work which would then allow God’s presence to remain in their midst and secure their future blessing. And so the pivotal centrality of the Tabernacle in Israel’s processions also signified that: ‘only if this judging was successfully passed would the rest of God’s plans for Israel be effectuated.’
            It is therefore not surprising to find that at every pivotal point in those above mentioned 5 Israel of God establishments, that a quite observable tangible judging and testing was first done by God to see if He can proceed with His Full Israel plans with that, yet another, generation of Israel. It is also significant to see that in all of these failings, it was chiefly due to the failing and bad example that the religious leaders of Israel had set. Thus they failed to serve to ‘avert God’s wrath on the whole congregation’ as Num 1:53 stipulated.

Israel Attempts Judgements
1- 12 Tribes Era (1445 B.C. - 723 B.C.)
            “Man” Failure - As discussed in this post, Israel initially came to fail in its mission when the Northern 10 tribes went on to idolatrously espouse quite detrimental and violent socio-economic ways and did not repent under the reform initiating preaching of the prophet Amos. And so, as Amos had prophesied (Amos 9:9-10), they were thoroughly “Shaken” for this failure which ended up in their complete conquering.

2- Pre-Exilic (Judah) Era (723 B.C. - 582 B.C.)
            “Lion” Failure - The then surviving kingdom of Judah with its 2 tribes failed their pointed testing when they, ascribing to a perverted form of worship which they considered to be quite acceptable to God, refused to allow God to effectuate a merciful reunification of all of the 12 tribes of Israel through them (see Ezek 11:14-21). And so, due to this blind obstinacy, refusing to heed God’s warnings and directives in the ministry of Ezekiel, God’s presence complete vacated His Sanctuary (Ezek 11:22-25) and Judah was also subjected to even more destructive physical judgements where now the Temple and Jerusalem were completely sacked.

3- Exilic & Post-Exilic Era (582 B.C. - 27 A.D.)
            “Man” Failure - The judging testing of Israel then occurred in the Time of Christ, and it was pointedly because the socio-economic perversions reigning supreme in Israel where the Law was, falsely, justifiedly used to neglect owed duties to the poor and needy, both physically as well as spiritually. So God’s Israel then did not pass that evaluation and thus could not continue in God’s plans.

4- NT|Christian Church Era (27 A.D. - 1798 A.D.)
            “Man” Failure - With Jesus having been the one upon whom the New Covenant was based, it is most interesting to see that the Church which He established was the only movement of Israel to date to have successfully passed that middle point testing mark. The Ox stage was indeed successfully established by Christ and the NT Church, more than less, continued on a proper course towards achieving God’s Israel until it went astray during its post-Tabernacle, third stage of “Man”. Indeed, as discussed earlier above, in Church History, and as shown in this post, the first 4 Church History Seals of Rev 6 are successively opened by the same order of the 4 Living Creatures mentioned in Rev 4:7. And so, the third seal is opened up by the Living Creature with the Face of a Man, and it is indeed during this Third Church age era (=313 A.D. - 538 A.D.) that the Gospel of Christ begun to be perverted in the Church. That led to a diluting of Biblical teachings and the foundation was also laid for socio-economic abuses, -perversions which would pave the way for the Mark of the Beast, including its socio-economic Capitalism implications. So while that solidly established foundation of Christ was indeed properly laid and thus passed its Tabernacle judging (not surprisingly with God most tangibly being in the midst of His people then in Jesus Christ), God’s Israel plans then were not able to pass the third “Man” stage of implementation.

5- Remnant Church Era (1798 A.D. - 1996 A.D.)
            “Lion/Man” Failure - Due mainly to many lessons learned from the failures of Church History, God’s attempt to establish His Israel, through the Church Militant state of the Remnant Church, saw some success toggling around its Lion and Man stage. Under the exhorting leadership of the SOP, the SDA Church initially made some significant inroads in perfecting socio-economic relation and ministry, however much of those efforts were gradually and now almost wholly, except for the replacing token works, been reversed and eclipsed. Interestingly enough, this socio-economic failure is a direct result of the Church’s various Globalized  resources not being coordinatedly and collaboratively used in order to facilitate its “Man” stage Gospel Mandate. And so it never advanced into fully understanding God’s Sabbatical will and ushering in God’s Covenant of Peace, which would have both been fully done during its third and fourth stages of advance, if the Church had successfully passed its sanctuary judgement (cf. this post).

6 & 7 - Church Triumphant Era (1996 -1999 & 1999 - ???? A.D.)
            And so since, a new Remnant Church, the Church Triumphant, has been established to effectuated the once again aborted Israel of God plans, and interestingly enough, as spiritual/empirical observations reveal, picking up at that Church Militant (failed) “Man” stage and with its pivotal “evaluating/judging” point, following the covenantal “Ox” understanding, having revealed/indicated/confirmed to have been passed in June 1999, which was then respectively follow up by its “Lion” and the “Eagle” understandings and Plans revelations. And as shown by the matching red highlighting in the first 5 Israel attempts which then match the order of the stage unfolding during the 6 & 7 parts, with the middle “Cherub” point indeed marking the pivotally transitional point where an unfolding plan could have, prior to that point, involved the SDA Church, organizationally as is, yet after having been spiritually reformed. The corresponding stages from the past Israel attempts to the Church Triumphant’s stages also pointedly highlight the key pass failing in those attempts which need to be perfected by the Church Triumphant. These are namely:

Man - Attempt #2 - The failure of Israel to have perfect socio-economic relations.
Ox - Attempt #4 - The NT Church failure to fully adhere to Christ’s New Covenant, Gospel message and mandate.
Lion - Attempt #3 - The non-accomplishment of Pre-Exilic Judah to effectuate a kingdom reunification involving those in the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel.
Eagle - Attempt #1-4 - The non-accomplishment of any of God’s Israel to have a full “Latter Rain” measure of His Spirit poured out upon them which, indeed as a soaring eagle, would help lead them in their ultimate, swift and powerful, global ascendency.


Summary
            The Biblically deeply-rooted symbolism in these 4 Living Creatures going back to the establishment of God’s Israel, are therefore a representation of the powers that help to found the establishment of God’s Throne upon this Earth in order to redeem it. These four aspects were borne and modelled by Jesus Christ whose resulting comprehensive Gospel resulted in the Spiritual fulfillment of these Israel plans being fulfilled. Still the fully planned temporal fulfillment of these symbolized plans remains to be concretely accomplished through God’s Israel. Hence the mission of the NJK Project. It is most fascinatingly and confirmingly, interesting to see that in Rev 21:2-3ff that God (finally) manages to establish His Throne on this earth through the New Jerusalem.

Notes

[1] Indeed this unique combination easily make the eagle the incontestable "chief of birds", and fitting symbol of assured provision, safety and protection (Exod 19:4, Deut 32:11). In fact when Israel was warned of a future destruction by an enemy it would be an eagle that was used to symbolize this coming, overwhelming “speedy and powerful” enemy (Deut 28:49; Jer 49:7; Hos 8:1; Hab 1:8). Twice in the Bible the eagle is used to symbolically represent a nation, namely, and uniquely, the kingdom of Babylon (Ezekiel 17 and Daniel 7:4). In the Daniel 7:4 Babylon is described as a lion with eagle’s wings. The symbol of the lion is apparently used to emphasize the previously mentioned statement on Babylon’s superiority over other kingdom (Dan 2:32, 37-39) as the ‘head of fine gold’, and with king Nebuchadnezzar being the ‘king of kings" (vs. 37; cf. Hab 1:10). Since the wings of the eagle represent the eagle’s great speed, and the strength of the eagle is apparently being replaced here by the stronger lion (see Hab 1:11; cf. 2 Sam 1:23), then, from such related observations of the times (particularly those in Hab 1), it can be see how the Babylonians were indeed both swift and strong.

[2] In fact in Ezek 10:15 all of the 4 Living Creatures are said to be Cherubs (=Ezek 1:3, 5ff). Thus, as more fully explained in this related statement involving “Seraphim,” these Living Creatures may in non-symbolic reality be 4 Cherub Angels, which, as explained here, are from the 7 Mighty Angels of God.
[3] However with the tribe of Dan originally located just north of the Tribe of Judah (Jos 19:40-48), (before its self-initiated relocation to the northernmost location in Israel (Jud 18:27-29)), a “separation of powers” could have occurred here with Dan being the tribe who judged Israel (cf. Jer 8:16, 17 = Gen 49:16, 17), while Judah’s kings merely administered the nation, (with of course God Himself doing the legislative duties in setting the laws). However with Israel wanting to have a ‘king like the nations around them’ where these powers, including the legislative ones were all concentrated into this single office (cf. Saul wrongly thinking that he had some authority into priestly prerogatives in 1 Sam 13:8-14), they lost this opportunity to greatly distinguish themselves among other nations, as it can be seen in the fact that the separation of powers is today hailed as a most crucial facet of a truly just and democratic society. (Relatedly, Israel may have been the first civilization to have key institutions such as e.g., a Congressional ‘Senate’ (Num 11:16-17; cf. Acts 5:21) and hierarchally multi-levelled government (Deut 1:15|PP 374.2)).
[4] It is probably quite significant that, of the 13 judges that ruled in Israel it was the only one to come from the tribe of Dan, namely Samson, the last of the judges, to be given the supernatural power of superhuman strength through God’s Spirit. Perhaps this was to be the exemplary representative of a judge in Israel as someone who, under the control of God’s Spirit was to demonstrate both wisdom and great strength, especially to deal with the most threatening enemies of Israel then, the Philistines.

[5] More precisely at 4:36 P.M. Indeed I was able to see the precise time it started because I had just awakened from sleep and after immediately glancing at my clock and seeing the time, was about to swing out of bed when, as customary, this vision started. When it ended, I once again looked at the time and saw that 9 minutes had passed, with the Sabbath having ended about mid-way at ca. 4:40 P.M. Interestingly enough, as I then sat up and immediately set out to fully (i.e., vs. “summarily” Dan 7:1) write the vision down in a special notebook I kept for these revelations, the ensuing hand written recording, including symbol unpacking, studying out in the Bible and SOP, took a full hour.
[6] The details of that vision may be included in this blog later, probably once it has been fully fulfilled, as its glorious finale is still in the process of being tangibly actualized.

16 comments:

  1. Pretty interesting point of view will continue to do my own research but definitely appreciate your helpful insight continue to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you he will reveal all things in due season

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well this is my third attempt to confirm my appreciation of your discourse concerning the four symbols it was very enlightening and definitely interesting continue to keep up the good work as the Holy Spirit will reveal all things in due season

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thank You for the comment, Evenyous. Indeed it is through Bible Study, the guidance of the Holy Spirit and God’s due/appointed time that we can, and will, come to fully understand God’s given message(s). (Isa 55:10, 11). God Bless!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thanks again. (This is actually the first time is was notified of a comment submission for this post.) I appreciate the conscientious support. (As comments on this blog are moderated, they are not immediately posted on submission).

    ReplyDelete
  5. These are images of the ark of the covenant
    with wheels being carted as in Samuel.
    Lifted up by saves with 4 rings.
    It has four sides for four wheels.
    The likeness means. It looks like A Man, A lion, A Eagle, and Oxen.
    Oh and that one having the likeness of a man sitting on the throne.
    Each having four wings. The ark cover and each living creature has two wings covering its body.
    There is nothing between the wings of the cherubim these are the same 4 wings. Thus there are all kinds of images of it. Where they screwed up is trying to copy Ezekiel in false doctrine. They lie. They interpreted this to be 6 wings.
    See the ark cover is created as one solid piece. Thus it is 1 piece with 4 wings. Each cherub had 2 wings covering its body. Since they have no body just wings.
    If you really want revelation you will understand that the law states we do not mix linen in wool.
    Nor do we bow to brass feet.
    The hands of a man under the wings where there should be air.

    21 When those went, these went, and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up beside them; for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
    Lifted from the earth? Sure the ark of the covenant was lifted from the earth.

    Sounds like 8 or 6 but it is 4.
    They made a grave mistake trying to use the parables of Ezekiel with out understanding. What spirit has given thee understanding?
    Electrum is an impure metal it is related to impurities in the metal. The Ark Moses made was of Pure Gold. See Solomon's house and know that the offering of Judah is unacceptable until the Levite comes. Solomon dressed the temple with all this Idolatry. The cherubim of Solomon's temple had wings 10 cubits each yet the whole cherub was only 20 cubits long, there is nothing between the wings. And although The Lord mentioned placing the cherub at the garden it was not yet defined until the Lord commanded Moshe to make one of beaten work. Micheal, Phenuel, Gabriel, Rafael are products of the lies recorded in the dead sea scrolls and various other books Like Daniel.
    Did you know Adam Named every fowl of the air and every beast of the field?
    He named himself Serpent.
    Take a serpent by the tail. Eve the only person of all history that claims to hear a serpent speak.It is the split of mankind. Leviathan? The Lord did not command the man to name the creatures of the sea and the word sea-monsters is indication of that. Moshe fled before a serpent because it was consider and bad omen but the Lord told Moshe to take it by the tail. Its a parable. Serpents do not speak. Take for instance. Lord questions Man, Then woman, but does not question a serpent. In the 7 days of creation I don't recall any mention of hell or winged men.
    Look upon the fiery serpent that you might know what it is. Dragon? Try Idol. Why fear a serpent? And where did shiatan come from? The Lord is Adversary and Savior and there is none else.
    Hi!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are several key factual/technical errors in your claims here, which I gather are being written from solely a Jewish perspective. Not to mention that your explanations are, (to me), substantively very vacuous and arbitrary. TextualéReferencial documentation would have been much more beneficial for you and appreciated by me.

      First of all there were 2, and not 4, and moreover, regular looking, Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant (Exod 25:18-20). So what is being depicted by those 4 angels is different than what is depicted by the two permanent covering Cherubim. From my understanding, the 4 Cherubim here are the ones next in line from those higher two, pointedly as those two Cherubim are never said to have more than 2 wings, which implies to me that these had more “access clearance” to God than even the other 4 Cherubim (cf. Ezek 28:14-15; cf. Isa 14:12-15ff).

      The carrying of the ark on a wheeled oxen cart by David was an “conveniencing” aberration. The only Law instruction was that the priests were to carry it themselves when it was moved (Exod 25:14; 37:5; Num 4:5). David probably felt that the journey to Jerusalem was too long for it to be carried all the way. So that is why when it stumbled and nearly fell over God did not hesitate to strike Uzza, who moreover was not a Levite (cf. 1 Chr 15:2) down because they were all along acting against His clear instructions. As David would later also find out, ignoring God’s directives is always at the peril of encasing any due/natural consequence that God’s perfect way would have even all together avoided.

      Jewish history/tradition (2 Maccabees 2:4-10) actually states that Jeremiah hid the ark of the covenant in a, now lost cave, though I personally believe that archeologist Ron Wyatt was indicatively onto sometime in his search for it. So for such reasons, I believe that it still on earth, where Jeremiah had hidden it, and preserved/hidden/concealed by God.

      I don’t see it as worthwhile/constructive to pointedly engage the other claims you have made as they are indeed quite arbitrary to me, and also, Spiritually speaking, from my Christian perspective, limitedly quite tunnelled-visioned. But I can understand this if your own perspective is Jewish. However there is much more Light that has come to add understanding to, especially such OT Apocalyptic prophecies, -including counsel to proper glean from “Apocryphal” works.

      Indeed, you asked: “What spirit has given thee understanding? well, the factual answer is, as already alludingly cited/stated, the continuing Spirit of Revelation as seen in the Testimony of Jesus = Spirit of Prophecy (Rev 12:17; 19:10; 22:6-8) which also guided the further development of this OT imagery in the book of Revelation. So I know much better than to limit my understanding and interpretation of Bible prophecies to just Old Testament understandings and light, because I know/believe that God has continued to shed much more light to His faithful people over the years, starting with the New Testament/Covenant.

      -I don’t at all get the point/pertinence of your ‘linen vs. wool’ statement...

      BTW the Jewish believe that “Satan” is a direct agent of/from God, will most likely be more detailedly addressed in this pertinent post in time.

      God Bless!

      Delete
    2. Anonymous poster, from here above, (from St. Joseph, Missouri): Your comment submitted on April 8, 2013 at 6:42:17 AM (CST) was re-posted only in part. You said in its first part:

      8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides(Levites carrying Ark); and as for the faces and wings of them four,their wings were joined one to another;(The ark cover of one solid piece)they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

      First of all, ‘hands under these covering cherubim wings’ is not a reference to the Levites carrying of the ark since they did not place their hands under the wings of the cherubim. Like Uzzah that would have probably resulted in their death. They were supposed to only use carrying poles.

      Secondly, you have added an explanatory comment which is completely non-relevant to the actual text. The “not turning” statement is clearly not a reference to the one piece ark cover!?? For one thing, it would say “they” (plural), but “it” (singular). Furthermore the “ark cover” is formally called the “mercy-seat” (e.g., Exod 25:17, etc) which is a (singular) feminine noun. So the (plural) masculine pronoun used here in Ezek 1:9 saying: ‘and they did not turn when they moved’ is not referring to the mercy-seat, but, grammatically, has the antecedent of the masculine plural “faces” in Ezek 1:8.

      The rest of you comment which speaks of ‘not mixing Moshe with Elijah’ is not posted because I don’t see how it relates here. Contact me directly by email if you want to further explain and discuss that claim. (See in my profile for email). And for one thing. Moses and Elijah were “mixed” by God in Mal 4:4-5 (English Bible).

      Delete
  6. I'm sorry, you can not understand this. The dimensions of the ark should tell you that the hands of those carrying the ark would have had to be under the wings. How can you even argue that? The simple facts are ignored. According to the design. http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0225.htm The ark without the cover is 1 and a half cubits tall or approx 2.25 feet tall. Then the ark cover goes on top of the ark. So you are absolutely mistaken. It is physically impossible for the Levite hands carrying the ark not to be under the wings. Under the wings does not mean the Levites actually touched the wings. It wouldn't matter where the rings and staves are positioned, the hands are under the wings at the four corners. When the ark is lifted off the earth it is being carried.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. {I have now reposted an edited and slightly expanded/documented version of my priorly posted comments which were “...removed...”.}

      [Your comments, “Anon”, are in bold]
      Anon: I'm sorry, you can not understand this.

      Don’t be/feel sorry for me. Just make sequitur, exegetical, logical and pertinent comments and there should then not be anything to miss or even ‘misunderstand’.

      Anon: The dimensions of the ark should tell you that the hands of those carrying the ark would have had to be under the wings. How can you even argue that?

      For one fundamental thing, I do not see that Ezek 1:8-9 is making any reference to the tabernacle furniture ark of the testimony at all, but to something else which has come down from Heaven. The Apocrypha reveals that Jeremiah hid it in a cave just before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians, so it would have to have been since ascended to Heaven for it to be coming down now.

      Nonetheless according to my understanding that what is coming down here is a representation of the throne of God, and since in Christian/SDA+ understanding, the Ark was a representation of the throne of God, (hence the theological term “mercy-seat” (cf. Heb 4:16)), I do see that the two would be distinct representations of the same thing, with Ezekiel’s representation being a new and distinct form. So I do not see a basis for claiming that the two are exactly, i.e., in all details, the same.

      Anon: The simple facts are ignored. According to the design. http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0225.htm The ark without the cover is 1 and a half cubits tall or approx 2.25 feet tall. Then the ark cover goes on top of the ark. So you are absolutely mistaken.

      (I assume your are meaning, as the Bible reads, the height to the ark cover from the ground is 2.25ft and not that the ark cover itself is 2.25ft thick). Now, I don’t know how you are missing this, but Exod 25:12ff states that the rings for the ark’s poles are at the feet/base of the ark. So the Kohathite Levites (Num 3:29-31) would most likely be carrying the ark by placing the poles on their shoulders, especially as that would be the least straining way for long displacements. So there is no “mistake” on my part.

      (cont’d)

      Delete
    4. (cont’d)

      Anon: It is physically impossible for the Levite hands carrying the ark not to be under the wings. Under the wings does not mean the Levites actually touched the wings.

      That clarification for “under the wings” makes more sense. But even if the rings were not at the feet of the ark, depending on how long those poles actually were, (and they were probably quite long as the goal here was indeed that the Kohathites would not, even accidentally, touch, or even see, the ark (Num 4:15, 20)), the hands of these Levites could easily not be directly underneath the angel’s wings. Indeed Exod 25:20 states that those two covering cherubim faced each other, and their wings went upwards and towards each other in order to cover the whole mercy seat. So for hands to be anywhere underneath these wings, they would have be directly underneath the ark itself, and thus be touching it which is not acceptable.

      Also you had not at all engaged, nor responded to, and/or taken in consequential consideration, the exegetical and grammatical facts cited in my prior response which had totally debunked your claim.

      Anon: It wouldn't matter where the rings and staves are positioned, the hands are under the wings at the four corners.

      Well the Bible still specifies that they were at the bottom. As explained above, if “under” the wings is to be taken literally then the angels wings would have to overlap the area of the ark’s cover. I don’t see this to be stated/described as being the case in the Bible.

      Anon: When the ark is lifted off the earth it is being carried.

      You are again here conflating and confusing the ark of the tabernacle with the different mobile throne which is revealed in Ezekiel. (And quite evidently, God was probably here prophetically revealing that an alternative, even replacement, to the (still today hidden) ark was now in effect); also now showing (see Ezek 1:24, 26-28ff) that “one like a son of man” was positioned on that throne; -which Christians understand to be speaking of the Advent of God the Son as the humanly incarnate Messiah (cf. Rev 1:12-13ff).

      And Ezekiel’s ark revelation in a mobile throne did not have to be carried by any man. The live 4 living creatures/cherubim on it provided this lift, and rested when near ground with wheels taking over. (Cf. Ezek 1:19) So as my cited prophetic revelation from the Spirit of Prophecy reveals: a human’s hand under the wings would actually only be impeding things here as they could not provide the power to make this throne to fly as these angels and their wings could. So Divine Power here would indeed bring much more success. (Prophets and Kings 176.1)

      Delete
  7. You say the "actual text" but in reality it is rouge interpretation from rouge scripture. 1st there is no mention of mercy-seat in the torah. You are also incorrect regarding the ark cover. It can be is described as one piece having two cherubim each having 2 wings and or one piece having 4 wings. No matter how you look at it it is the same 4 wings. 4 faces, 4 rings, 4 wings, 4 wheels.

    This is how they came up with six because they misunderstood this when they lied
    11 Thus were their faces; and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were (joined) one to another (2x2=4), and two covered their bodies same (2x2=4). . Furthermore they misunderstood the use of brass. Brass is fake gold also indicating these were fakes since the ark-cover is made of pure gold. It is also why they put wings on on everything. What does a cherubim look like? You have to use your imagination because nothing is described between the wings. With your imagination comes folly.
    Why give the Lords Glory unto wings?
    If angles had wings what good is a ladder?

    Sprinkle blood on the ark-cover 7 times because it is forever unclean.
    Oh and don't eat blood or the flesh of man.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Anon: “You say the "actual text" but in reality it is rouge interpretation from rouge scripture.”

      I presume you meant “rogue”. (If not, what would you mean by “rouge” (=“red”)?)

      Anon: “Anon: 1st there is no mention of mercy-seat in the torah.”

      That is indeed more of a theological, versus literalistic, translation which I see no problem using given the fuller revelation from Christian theology, with even the LXX having a similar theological term of “to make reconciliation”. These theological translations are both derived from what is understood in the sanctuary service when things are “covered”, as in ‘made atonement for’, which did indeed occur at the ark on the Day of Atonement (Lev 16:2ff, 13ff)

      Anon: “You are also incorrect regarding the ark cover. It can be is described as one piece having two cherubim each having 2 wings and or one piece having 4 wings.”

      I see Biblical support for my understanding of ‘one piece having two Cherubim’ (Exod 25:18, 22). You need to provide textual documentation for your ‘one piece having four wings’. And why would an inanimate thing have wings??

      Anon: “No matter how you look at it it is the same 4 wings. 4 faces, 4 rings, 4 wings, 4 wheels.”

      Again Ezekiel mobile throne revelation is different from the even more “symbolistic” ark in Exodus. And two cherubim in Exodus are not said to have more than one face each, and also no wheels. Also no mention of rings in Ezekiel as that ark representation did not need the carrying aid of man to move about.

      Furthermore I am seeing that Ezek 10:20-22 indicates that there were actually a total of 16 faces and 16 wings. (Cf. Ezek 1:11) Which, according to my overall understanding in this present blog post, indicates how “each one” of the living being were intertwined in the other three’s function. (Cf. Ezek 1:17)

      Anon: “This is how they came up with six because they misunderstood this when they lied ”

      You are confusing things here. No one “lied”. The six wings mentioned in Rev 4:8 are straightly a reference to the Seraphim in Isa 6:2, which, as stated in this blog post, is, in a Christianity context, an indication to me that Seraphim were promoted to the positions of the 4 Living Creatures following the coming of these Ezekiel 4 Living Creatures to Earth. [In SDA Theology there is a similar precedence of when Gabriel was promoted to vacated Covering Cherub position the place of Satan/Lucifer after he was cast out of Heaven. (=Ezek 28:11-17ff)]

      So I am neither seeing a mistake here in the NT, nor expecially a “lie”. That just your personal biased claim/conviction.

      Anon: “11 Thus were their faces; and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were (joined) one to another (2x2=4), and two covered their bodies same (2x2=4).”

      I rather see that the text correctly reads as: each cherubim had 2 of their 4 wings which joined with another (thus the two other cherubim beside each one of them, and the other, remaining, two wings were used to cover their own bodies.

      Anon: “Furthermore they misunderstood the use of brass. Brass is fake gold also indicating these were fakes since the ark-cover is made of pure gold. It is also why they put wings on on everything. What does a cherubim look like? You have to use your imagination because nothing is described between the wings. With your imagination comes folly.
      Why give the Lords Glory unto wings?
      If angles had wings what good is a ladder?

      Sprinkle blood on the ark-cover 7 times because it is forever unclean.
      Oh and don't eat blood or the flesh of man.


      Again you disjunct into a spiel of haywire comments out of left field. Who mentioned something about brass?? Who ‘puts wings on everything’?? Etc...What do you mean by any of these irrelevant comments??? Try to focus here.... Truth is not in what you claim, but what you can substantiate and prove.

      Delete
  8. To “Anonymous” (Jewish) poster above. I appreciate your interest in wanting to post your comments on this topic, but, as I already said to you, I don’t see a valid reason to want to limit this discussion to a one dimension, namely only the Jewish Scriptures. Furthermore, as also with your latest submitted comments, they are also all over the place and lack proper exegesis. You are also not responsive at all to presented facts which have disproven your claim and just continue unaffected with the same views. Your approach also appears to be somewhat Midrashic (vs. exegetical), and thus that really then becomes your own fancy as to what the Scriptures you cite mean.

    So it is no longer worthwhile for me to continue this discussion. You may submit your comments, (or send them to me via this blog’s email), if you want but if they are like these others, they will neither be addressed by me, nor posted. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete

This blog aims to be factual and, at the very least, implicitly documented. Therefore if applicable, any comment which contains unsubstantiated/unsupportable ideas will not be allowed to be published on this blog. Therefore make the effort to be Biblical, truthful and factual.

-It typically takes 1-2 days for an accepted submitted comment to be posted and/or responded to.

[If you leave an "anonymous" comment and, if applicable, would like to know why it may not have been published, resend the comment via email (see profile) to receive the response.]