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The Ministry of Francis Chan & David Platt, et. al. (Rev 3:1-6)

             It is prophetically quite fitting that God has raised up people like Francis Chan (see also here) & David Platt (see his YT-posted sermons here), among others (see e.g., here and here), in this Eschatological “Reformation” (Fifth Series) Era[1] to get the Christian Church, particularly in the wealthy West, to take the Gospel Commission (Matt 28:18-20) most seriously. But from just, by now, having viewed many of their sermons and presentations towards this end, it is evident, (as it similarly is occurring e.g., here), that the element of formal/tangible Organization (=Reformation) is missing to complement their current Revival endeavors. (cf. Matt 9:35-38ff).

            Succinctly said/suggested to them here, as they have done to make tangible their calls to discipleship with various instructional “Multiply” resources, their simultaneous calls for people to, e.g., care for the poor and needy in their communities and throughout the world, to evangelize the ca. 6000+ unreached people groups in the world, etc, would be greatly aided if there were concrete organizations with resources that people could turn to and use towards achieving those goals. {e.g., this one and here; cf. ChS 58.1-59.2ff}
            So I would here suggest the following organizational ideas, -see the formal detailing here, -(which is, due to the various actual obstacles and realities which need to be overcome, a more expansive organizing/collaborating/networking of what was e.g., done by over 140 organizations for the global need of/for orphans here. Cf. Chan’s promo here.), which actually would also help to bridge the great divide which has resulted from their efforts of people on one side who do want to “radically” “sell all and go”, and others who rightly rather see that there is also a place/need to: “leverage all and fund/invest” (=Matt 25:19-23), i.e., use funds-generating resources to “make wealth” to fund such works. [As precisely identified and termed by John Piper here as: “zealous goers” &/vs “zealous senders”[=‘liberal givers’ (Rom 12:8)] (=Luke 8:1; cf. ChS 12.3); and indeed with, in regards to missions, ‘all Christians outside of these two groupings being: the “disobedient”’!!][2] Indeed in the quite unique Disciple-like “come, follow Me” call (cf. Matt 4:19; 9:9; John 1:43) that Jesus gave to the rich young ruler (Luke 18:22) where He manifestly was, (probably as also in Matt 8:22), calling him to join His special circle of traveling disciples (cf. DA 519.3), -as indeed seen by how the also rich Zaccheus was not given a similar call, (evidently with Jesus understanding that Judas was not going to be part of the group later on (John 6:70-71; cf. Acts 1:15-26)), but that itinerant preaching and good works doing ministry of Christ was actually well funded (Luke 8:1-3), (-and that by grateful people/women who had benefitted from His works (=Matt 10:8-10)), -which probably is why Jesus did not even call the rich young ruler to ‘sell all and give to Him’. So, through the suggestions made here, people can freely/voluntarily give from their own means (=Acts 4:34-35; cf. Acts 5:4a) on one hand, and others who are, or have become, free of individually and/he or locally anchoring things can be sent wherever they are needed/want to go, in the world to do this Great Commission work:

-At the individual level, people can indeed heed the calls of Chan and Platt to aim to live sacrificially and do what it takes in their lifestyle, expenses and finances to set themselves up to where they can ‘truly love others as themselves’ (Matt 22:39) by being able to give away as much money to aid missions works as they retain to expend on themselves.

-Local Churches can serve as formal recruiting and training centers for people who would like to be involved in such works, including Bible Work “discipleship”.

-Local Churches can also serve as funds collectors from donating members and people in those communities towards such ministry and missions works. These local Churches can also either covenant themselves to do as Francis Chan’s [now former] Cornerstone (Simi Valley) Church did in budgeting half of their income towards expending on others in need. (See here [48:20ff]; cf. here). This covenanting goal can either be achieved by a downsizing of the local/self expenditure project and/or can by asking members to give more so that this 50-50 parity can be met. I.e., if a Church is currently spending 65% more on itself than on others, then all members can be asked to give 65% more than they currently do. (The Biblical 10% systematic/faithful tithing mandate can easily achieve the funding goals here, particularly given God’s promised reciprocal blessings in return (Mal 3:10-12))

-A formal association/conference of similarly covenanting Local Churches in a community can then pool their human and financial resources to establish and operate whatever gospel (i.e., social and/or evangelistic) ministry is needed in that community.

-A Regional Union of these community associations (e.g., operating within a wider organizing funding and delegating website such as Share Him) can work towards training (paying Bible College tuitions) and sending/appointing missionaries to wherever they are needed in the world. The parent organizational entity of these Regional Unions can themselves also focus on managing the more technically/politically involved elements for such global missions which in many cases to reach unreached groups require mission aviation (see here[00:00-18:49]), as well as providing for living sustenance, medical services, education, developmental aid work, (Christian) TV and Radio broadcasting, etc (see e.g. David Gates similar “radical/extreme faith-based”: “Gospel Ministry International” of/for volunteer (radical) missionaries. This is sure to indeed “multiply”, and even, when applicable, systematically and/or efficiently sustain/perpetuate the great work that one person is able to (tangibly) do ‘in their freed time’ (e.g. here (08:07-12:54-13:41)/here); -which of course can easily merely involve partnering with/formally supporting/supplying already existing and working organizations and/or forming expanding “chapters” of them....Even Jesus (increasingly) “organized” as: 12 (Matt 10), 70 (Luke 10:1-24), 120 (Acts 2:1-4ff), 3000+ (Acts 2:37-47), 5000+ (Acts 4:4, 32-37), etc. -Only in Western thinking is there a fundamental individualistic and/or capitalistic “lone-ranger”/Superhero mentality to any endeavor instead of Christ’s consistently collaborative one. [...and even Superheroes join together into a "league of justice" to accomplish special missions (i.e., against a heightened enemy (group)]...

            There are actually/indeed many ministries and organizations which already exist and are endeavoring to do such works, so the most basic thing that can be done is to faithfully increase the funding to them so that they can do much more, but there is actually also a need for more hands on human resources, particularly as the greatest expense in most developmental causes is typically in the human/services sector and which includes the proper training and even professional educating of local people so that they themselves can do such works. So if the popular Chan and Platt “ministry” can at the very least provide an only resource that would facilitate the linking of volunteers and givers to those other ministries, that would be a great start, yet there is still more that can be done, and the organizational suggestions given above would help achieve this as most efficiently as possible....

....And ultimately, if the goal here is to really and urgently save life, indeed the life of “the very least of these” (Matt 25:45), then there is no more fitting and pressing work to do than doing all that is require to also tangibly engage in Aborting Abortion!!! (See the 01-18-2014 “Stand for Life” conversation hosted by John Ensor of the Passion Life Ministry with Francis Chan and John Piper (cf. here) on the abortion issue. See also from David Platt here & here.)...
            ...In fact, in relation to Francis Chan’s constant remonstrating of the fact that his congregations/audiences (e.g, here [31:18-36:29]) are indifferently still not living up to the Apostolic Community/Fellowship ideal, the reason is that this slighting is, (and as Chan himself also has pointed out here [44:54-45:49] & here [28:57-31:40]), at the very least, directly to the absence a catalyzing existential need to do so, especially in the systematically self-sufficient western societies. However when the Gospel Mandate of Christ will be fully heeded to the point, as stated above, that the Matt 25:45 “very least”, pointedly the 65,000,000+ annually aborted infants, will be rescued and aided, then there will be such a need to “press together” (5T 539.1) as variously exhaustively planned for in the NJK Project, in order to be able to accomplish such (most) loving goals/objectives. (Matt 22:39). In fact, as stated in AA 70.1, it may have been various, and persisting (cf. 2 Cor 8:7-15), natural and imposed hardships which manifestly “catalyzed” the Apostles into seeking God’s own Biblical socio-economic solution here.

“As the disciples proclaimed the truths of the gospel in Jerusalem, God bore witness to their word, and a multitude believed. Many of these early believers were immediately cut off from family and friends by the zealous bigotry of the Jews, and it was necessary to provide them with food and shelter.  {AA 70.1} 

The record declares, "Neither was there any among them that lacked," and it tells how the need was filled. Those among the believers who had money and possessions cheerfully sacrificed them to meet the emergency. Selling their houses or their lands, they brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet, "and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."  {AA 70.2} 

This liberality on the part of the believers was the result of the outpouring of the Spirit. The converts to the gospel were "of one heart and of one soul." One common interest controlled them--the success of the mission entrusted to them; and covetousness [See EW 266-269] had no place in their lives. Their love for their brethren and the cause they had espoused, was greater than their love of money and possessions. Their works testified that they accounted the souls of men of higher value then earthly wealth.  {AA 70.3} 

Thus it will ever be when the Spirit of God takes possession of the life. Those whose hearts are filled with the love of Christ, will follow the example of Him who for our sake became poor, that through His poverty we might be made rich. Money, time, influence--all the gifts they have received from God's hand, they will value only as a means of advancing the work of the gospel. Thus it was in the early church; and when in the church of today it is seen that by the power of the Spirit the members have taken their affections from the things of the world, and that they are willing to make sacrifices in order that their fellow men may hear the gospel, the truths proclaimed will have a powerful influence upon the hearers.” {AA 71.1} 

Indeed then:

“No longer were they [the Apostles] a collection of independent units or discordant, conflicting elements. No longer were their hopes set on worldly greatness. They were of "one accord," "of one heart and of one soul." Acts 2:46; 4:32. Christ filled their thoughts; the advancement of His kingdom was their aim. In mind and character they had become like their Master, and men "took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." Acts 4:13.”  {AA 45.2}

            Likewise, and as per the present and feasibly surmountable need of our day, when the Christian Church will be seriously actively working to rid the world of all of these preventable, curable and/or intentional causes of suffering and death, then will the often-lamented default antagonism to them and their message naturally be removed and even diametrically reversed (e.g. Zech 8:23; cf. Rom 2:28-29; Rev 2:9; 3:9)...and then will, -(and, as seen e.g. from here [31:17-34:46], as Francis Chan himself ‘Biblically, and experientially,’ also fully comprehends), the Holy Spirit complement such devotion and efforts to supernaturally do what they genuinely cannot do for themselves (=Isa 58:6-12)!!
            Relatedly, as parabolically depicted here, the call in Matt 25:6 to the guests to go an meet the Rev 19:8-9 (Little) Lamb Bridegroom will only be perceived/grasped/heeded by those who have tangibly (=Acts 5:32) allowed the Holy Spirit to, as mentioned above, ‘birth them from above” (John 20:22; Acts 2:2-4) and thus enable them to clearly, especially Spiritually, see, know and understand from Scripture, as emphasized by Christ Himself, what the Kingdom of God is all about (cf. John 3:3ff), which is that it will involve fully/tangibly emulating all of the various “righteous acts” (=Acts 10:38) of Jesus Christ!! (Matt 25:31-46).
           

Francis Chan et al. Commentary:

True ‘NT/Christian Fellowship’
            It is foundationally important to Biblically note in regards to the key exhortation of Francis Chan about ‘Acts 2:44-45 & 4:32-35 Apostolic fellowship/living’, (see e.g. his sermon here & here [ca. 18:48ff]), was not completely “out of the blue”. It was most likely, though heightenedly, based on/derived from how they had read how God Himself had similarly: Supernaturally Acted (Exod 16:18); Foundationally Modeled (Num 26:52-56); Socially Legislated (Deut 15:1-11); Economically Regulated (Lev 25:36-38; Deut 23:19-20); Prophetically Exhorted (Isa 58:6-12) and Abhorredly Rebuked (Isa 1:10-17; Amos 5:21-24; Ezek 16:49-50) throughout the OT times, and all through an amplifying Gospel lens (Luke 3:10-14; 18:18-27)...Indeed/In Fact, when Paul later wanted to come to a more systematic aid from wealthier groups of believers (i.e., compared to 1 Cor 16:1ff ‘aid collection’) to that Jerusalem group (Rom 15:26) as a natural disaster in the region had severely affected them economically, he, in 2 Cor 8:1-6, 7-15ff; 9:5-15, appealed to the example of God in the OT as the warranting and mandating basis for such sharing amongst fellow believers. (=John 13:34-35; 15:12-13, 17; cf. Matt 25:45-46; James 2:24, 26)

The Promised Gospel’s Holy Spirit’s All-Power
            Francis Chan (and also David Platt) repeatedly, surely candidly/genuinely, expresses how he cannot understand why all believers cannot grasp the Gospel promise (Matt 28:18ff) that ‘they have all the Power of God’s Spirit dwelling in them’. (See e.g. here 22:50ff) Well the answer may squarely lie in what Randy Skeete has presented here [05:53-15:28ff] which is that: ‘as with un-faith-ful OT Israel, the message of the Gospel is not being mixed/united with faith.’ (Heb 4:2). In other words, unlike Francis Chan and several others who have stepped out to act on this promise and command of Christ, most others are indeed just not actually obeying/heeding the message and calling here, and therefore cannot come to tangibly experience the Holy Spirit’s power! (Acts 5:32b; cf. John 11:40) -And, relatedly, yet/in fact, God has made/allowed it that even in the face of a resurrection, faith/belief would still be required. (e.g., Luke 16:31; John 11:43-44, 45-53; Matt 28:17; cf. SC 105.2).


Common Objecting to God’s Judgement
            On Francis Chan’s often mentioned (e.g., here [45:31-49:56ff]) depiction in regards to those who claim that God Does/Will Not Punish (cf. Chan here on Luke 19:27; -especially through a literal Hell; and on: “Erasing Hell”), and Chan citing (1) Noah/Antediluvians[3]; (2) Sodom and Gomorrah; and (3) Egypt’s Plagues:

(1) See EGW/SOP, Patriarchs and Prophets, 95-96 (quoted and bolded below; cf. this discussion).

(2) Sodom and Gomorrah were not actually given any heads up (Gen 18-19; Luke 17:28-30 cf. Matt 24:36, 39). Their Chief/Capital sin, especially post the well-known Flood destruction, was “naturally”/inherently/self-evidently abominable (Gen 18:20; Rom 1:18-32); -In fact God was initially not even going to tell Abraham, -but as a ‘warning/cautioning object-lesson to Abraham and his future Nation’, He did! (Gen 18:17-19)

(3) Most in Egypt (cf. e.g, Exod 9:20-21), especially in the leadership did not actually, or later “really”, believe in the existence/power of Moses’ God. (Exod 5:2)...Or rather, Pharaoh was purposefully not allowed to (Exod 7:3-5).


PP 95:96:
“The men of that generation were not all, in the fullest acceptation of the term, idolaters. Many professed to be worshipers of God. They claimed that their idols were representations of the Deity, and that through them the people could obtain a clearer conception of the divine Being. This class were foremost in rejecting the preaching of Noah. As they endeavored to represent God by material objects, their minds were blinded to His majesty and power; they ceased to realize the holiness of His character, or the sacred, unchanging nature of His requirements. As sin became general, it appeared less and less sinful, and they finally declared that the divine law was no longer in force; that it was contrary to the character of God to punish transgression; and they denied that His judgments were to be visited upon the earth. Had the men of that generation obeyed the divine law, they would have recognized the voice of God in the warning of His servant; but their minds had become so blinded by rejection of light that they really believed Noah's message to be a delusion.  {PP 95.3} 
            It was not multitudes or majorities that were on the side of right. The world was arrayed against God's justice and His laws, and Noah was regarded as a fanatic. Satan, when tempting Eve to disobey God, said to her, "Ye shall not surely die." Genesis 3:4. Great men, worldly, honored, and wise men, repeated the same. "The threatenings of God," they said, "are for the purpose of intimidating, and will never be verified. You need not be alarmed. Such an event as the destruction of the world by the God who made it, and the punishment of the beings He has created, will never take place. Be at peace; fear not. Noah is a wild fanatic." The world made merry at the folly of the deluded old man. Instead of humbling the heart before God, they continued their disobedience and wickedness, the same as though God had not spoken to them through His servant.”  {PP 96.1}  


March 20, 2014:
Francis Chan and Seraphim|Four Living Creatures|“Holiness of God” Message
            Going by the trusting belief of a prophetic genuineness that, as Francis Chan similarly relates in this 05-14-2014 [00:25-04:31ff] message, and then in this 05-16-2014 (mp4) [22:14-25:17ff] one, ‘he keeps getting the same impression from God to preach on the “Holiness of God” issue, -derived from Isa 6:1-7ff & Rev 4,’ I, as I typically do with any statement which I know/trust to be inspired by God, then dry to delve into finding out the “why” for such a revelation, especially, (as it also occurs many times in the SOP), when it actually seems so counterintuitive and off-beat. Indeed Francis Chan himself says in March 16 sermon [22:38] (which was for the 20th Anniversary of the Cornerstone Simi Valley Church) that he is quite self-aware that he may by now ‘be sounding like a broken record’.
            Well in thinking this through to find out the why, I could not help to reference my study of the Seraphim|4 Living Creatures which Biblically decipheredly involve that they actually have a tangible application in regards to the proper (chief) foundations for establishing a righteousness-filled kingdom of God (cf. e.g., Psa 11:3; Matt 6:10; Jer 23:5-6; Isa 11:4, 7; 54:14; 58:8b; 2 Pet 3:13). Indeed if believers today do not get this “most foundational” sanctifying (i.e. ‘setting apart (from this world/age)’ message (John 17:14-19), as Jesus Himself tangibly preached (Luke 6:46-49) and modelled (e.g., Acts 10:38), then they will never be able to accomplish Christ’s wish and expectation for His “body” on/in this world (=Matt 6:10). So evidently, God sees that many professed “followers of Christ” have indeed yet to truly, substantively, grasp that message!! (cf. Ezek 33:30-33) [Reminds me of a guy in my Church who was in his late 20's early 30's, when I was myself 13 to 15, who, at literally every single of the many Church Concert/Worship gatherings he was given a chance to present a poem, just kept repeating as a poem based on Isa 30:18-21. I myself then just could not get why he kept repeating the same poem (also not even knowing that he was actually quasi-quoting the Bible). I even wondered if he himself realized this, but the telling resolute smile on his face showed that he was fully aware of what he was (repeatedly) doing.]. So, as actually depicted in Ezek 1:4ff, which Ezekiel kept re-seeing throughout various key stages of his experience, and even if in varying manifestations, as being most pivotal to God’s work of reforms then (Ezek 10:15, 20; 43:3), that foundational lesson does indeed need to be “foundationally” learned and heeded before anything lasting and effective can then be done.
            Succinctly said here, here are some observations which I came to as I further pondered the “why” of this (repeating) experience of Chan:

-It is, as Chan notes, indeed quite striking to read about these Seraphim|Four Living Creatures continually only saying various “verses” of praise about God’s Holiness (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8; 5:14; 19:4). It clearly is that these Seraphim|4 Living Creatures, which, as discussed in & from here, are specially created and outfitted (cf. in here) to be able to be quite close to God, manifestly within His “unapprochable glory/light” (1 Tim 6:16), actually continually do this out of candid and genuine wonder at, correspondingly, how God just continue to keep on amazing them. And it would seem to me that if the other angels had this same “close access” privilege, they would likewise do this continual praising, and/or it may actually be that it is so that the other angels would not be also continually doing this that God has chosen to have them be represented by these 4 Living Creatures. And these other angels do have a quite busy agenda in regards to the tangible and necessary work they were created by God to do throughout His Universe. So these specially-dedicated, representative, 4 Living Creatures’ genuine actions allows these other angels to fulfill their duties....And also “necessarily”, reciprocally, this genuine and candid continual worshiping of God by these 4 Living Creatures is an objective constant reminder to all of these other (ministering) angels that the One who they are faithfully and most obediently continually serving is indeed Worthy!!

-Interestingly enough, the above point does, as all that God has created and done, tangibly translate into something concrete, even beyond this ‘allowing of the angels to do their work’. With, as discussed here, the 4 Living Creatures being indeed tangibly symbolically representative of the Chief Foundations for an emulating Kingdom of God, when, as stated in here, these are mindfully set to always be giving praise (=worship) to the Creator God, then, and only then, is such a Kingdom endeavor both realizable and also sustainable (even if by God’s own supernatural assistance and intervention e.g., Isa 58:8-9). So these 4-Living-Creatures emulating/reflecting “chief foundations” likewise continually giving obedience and honor to the Creator God similarly ‘allow for God’s people on Earth to be able to go about and do God’s intended (redemptive) tangible work, and that of course, to their fullest extent (e.g., Matt 25:45).’
            So, as an illustration, establish such a tangible, temporal Kingdom of God as the NJK, would require that people devote themselves to what would seem to be “non-worshipping work and pursuits” such as studying e.g., Civil, Electrical, Aeronautical Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture among many other such (“secular”) sciences and vocations, but when they use that knowledge, training and skills are invested into the thriving functioning of that Kingdom of God, which is controlled by the dedication of its “Chief Foundations” to the Creator God, then the full work of God is then done. If on the other “sanctimonious” end, all decided to become pastors or even health workers, seeing these vocations as more reflective of worshiping God, then there are many things that God would want to have beneficially done which would not be, either efficiently, or at all, be done, as the needed various resources to do so would not be available to His people. Indeed, as seen today, God’s people have to pay the idolatrously worshipful and artificial/inflated prices of selfish, greedy and covetous people to get certain necessary work done, e.g., build a Church, School or a Hospital. And that is because, especially His people, as also seen with SDA’s, who, through God-guided to institutions such as Universities, He certainly has given them the “power to gain wealth” (i.e., help themselves), have fearfully/idolatrously instead chosen to use these resources to (faithfully) serve the guileful (Babylonian/Capitalistic) world. (=Isa 30:12-17) So this message of continually worshiping God through the deliberate representing establishment of His Four Living Creature “Foundations” is indeed one that has yet to, on many differently levels/layers, be heeded by His professed people. (See Isa 28:14-18ff; cf. Isa 30:18-26ff = Rev 18:1-4ff)

-It is also important to perceive that the reference to the Four Living Creatures, which themselves embody the order of Heaven, which was to be emulated in His Earthly Israel (Num 2) can therefore be understood as being also indicative of a desired order that God also wants to see in the worship given to, and work done for, Him.


April 7, 2014
The Gospel vs. Humanitarian “Balance”
            While I do, albeit, glibly said, “get” the common “concern” of Christians who are serious about meeting humanitarian/physical needs, as e.g. variously expressed here in a “The Gospel Coalition” segment by David Platt, Matt Chandler and John Piper, that ‘they do not want to merely be meeting these needs of the people they minister to, but also their Spiritual need’, I personally have, especially since myself working towards meeting such physical needs of people, always, and actually tangibly revoltingly, hated hearing of an imposing of any degree of “Gospel Message consideration” requirement to these people in need. I think it would produce the type of base, superficial and spurious “loaves and fishes” interests/followers that Jesus was actually not interested in having. (John 6:26). And by me just flipping things here: if Taoists were imposing that I seriously consider their religion if they were to help me, then that would naturally/defaultly make me think that their religion must not be true, or actually independently true/attractive enough.

            However in the Gospel I rather see that Jesus had a much more sincere plan for reaching the hearts of any non-believers. (See Matt 5:43-48|Luke 6:27-36; 1 Pet 2:12; MH 143.3-4ff; cf. Luke 14:12-14). And that: indeed through a systematic organizing and work, as it is to be fully and truly done in the unity of believers as Christ has counseled in John 17:22-23. (=Tim 2:14; 3:8; 3:14; Heb 10:24; James 3:13; e.g. Acts 2:42-47; 4:32-35; 2 Cor 8:7-15). And in Christ’s most pivotal mandate to believers in Matt 25:31-46 to meet the needs of everyone, even to the least of these (now abortion-threatened infants) there is today an even wider need for believers to fully unify, as proposed here, in order to be able to exhaustively accomplish such ministry towards the many millions of people in the world. It would seem most sequiturly logical that Christians heeding Christ and uniting to actually meet the needs of all, pointedly the needs of those who are ignored today merely out of worshipful obeisance to (spurious) Capitalistic, “not-enough-money” dogmas, would indeed in itself be an incontrovertible testimony. Particularly as many of the negative views of Christianity would be silenced by such most genuine and most loving ministry. Couple that with such ministries prominently indicating, in e.g., ministry names and their signs, that they are “Christians” and that also would serve as a Gospel message witness. (In fact, if they do their ‘loving ministering’ properly, even merely having their initials in those signs, e.g. an FSZC Mission, would still be fully recognized and known for who/what, and about Who/What that (Full) Gospel ministry is...Case in point the U.S.’s world-notorious CIA is well known merely by these initials of it, indeed to the point that probably most people, especially overseas (to the U.S.) May not actually now what its initials accurately stand for, (i.e., Central Intelligence Agency; and not, e.g., “Covert Investigations of America’), yet they would all fully know exactly what that agency is all about, and who they belong to...Converse example: What does the KGB, -the prior CIA-counterpart of the U.S.S.R. (-itself yet another case in point), or its present (notoriously lesser renown) main successor, Russia’s FSB, stand for??!!). So if a person then still refuses to consider what the message of Christianity is, then that would just be their resolute choice. Forcing them to accept a gospel tract, or watch a Gospel message presentation would actually not be more influential.


April 17, 2014
The Second Coming of Jesus Christ
            Having been raised, and been SDA, technically speaking, for my first 25 years, and actually with a Biblically deeper and Theologically realistic understanding also since then in now my: “beyond SDA” faith (see bio here), formally as a “New Remnant Church” member, a FSZC, it was quite odd to hear Francis Chan confessingly, (introductorily) state in this year end (12-27-2009) sermon that: ‘he, and as no doubt other Christians too, do not think much, i.e., as much as they should, on the Return of Christ’. Though it is actually to a glib fault, that is virtually all you “professedly” hear (e.g. here) from the typical, serious SDA, (and with the “A” in their denominational name of course standing for “Advent-ist”) with the “glibing fault” being that it is a vacuous “hope” where their “confidence” wrongly lies in supposedly fulfilling “Signs of the Times” (see e.g. (a former patent sample) here) and also supposed ‘Final Event Prophecies’ (see the latest in Note #1 below), and not on whether or not the Gospel work is actually being, and that properly/exhaustively/“fully”, finished (e.g., Matt 24:14; 6:10; cf. Matt 25:31-46).
            Like Pioneer Adventists, millions of Christians relatively recently also experienced a Great Disappointment when, at least in the 1980's they, as per the prominent claims/reckonings of Hal Lindsey, twice, also quite publicly/renownly, had such a disappointing experience in regards to ‘a belief that Christ was going to (supposedly “Secret Rapturly”) return then’, in, as predicted, 1981, then 1988, (and with actually several dates being later claimed in the next few years).
            As Biblically discussed e.g. here: Christ will indeed surely Return (in Glory [and not “secretly” 2 Peter 3:10), one day...and that will actually be ‘whenever His testifying, Full Gospel mandate work is done (See, as parabolized here, Matt 24:45-25:46)...Hence now Christ’s Reformatory Call in Rev 3:5; cf. 16:15 [cf. Matt 24:42-44; 1 Thess 5:1-6ff; 2 Pet 3:10]). And with such a deeper and substantive (vs. vacuous) understanding of Christ’s Return, while in the Theology of my “beyond SDA faith” I now prophetically understand that: (1) Christ’s coming has been, and, (as e.g., depicted here), will continue to be, hindered by the variously selfish/self-interested and non-sacrificing disposition of men, especially professed believers/followers of Christ, -which, as stated in 2 Pet 3:9 is actually mercifully granting them the necessary added probationary opportunity and time (Rev 7:1-3; EW 36-38;15MR 292.3-4) for them to fully repent of such wrongs (=Rev 3:2, 19), especially/including “sin of (missional/benevolence) omission” (e.g., Matt 25:41-46|DA 825.4); and also (2) that the Future actually neither exists, nor is it, as per Jer 18:1-10, (concretely/bindingly) set, or even merely ‘(concretely) planned’, by God, I actually, Biblically have a much more ‘soon’ Return of Christ belief than even SDA’s as my belief actually includes an “imminent” (i.e., any moment) possibility (versus the patent SDA: ‘only when/after all prophecies have been fulfilled’ belief), which permits that if such selfish men, believers and/or unbelievers should suddenly come to act in an aberrational way that God Himself had not thought, nor planned that they would (radically) then would (cf. Isa 5:2ff), then God/Jesus can easily end any intercession ministry then and “Gloriously return” (=Matt 24:30-31) within that (half) day to, (then, contrary to what has been injunctively prophetically planned here: non-mercifully), ‘swiftly avenge His (life/extinction-threatened) elect’ (Luke 18:7-8a)!!


May 19, 2014
True “Sabbatical” Principles
            Francis Chan likes to give an indeed quite striking testimony (see here [27:42-31:17-32:49ff]) of how, in the Summer of 2011, and then again in the Summer of 2012, when he then endeavored to not have the typical “only sermonizing” conference, but instead have one which also sought to tangibly do something to help people in the community in various (physical/health) needs, God twice miraculously/timely met the need they had in not having any/enough meat to also serve in the meal which they planned to have for the people they were ministering to. It seems to me that, and in the light of many Christians (see, off the top of my readily recollecting head: e.g., Joel Osteen here and (dissonantly ambivalently) Ray Comfort here; -and relatedly also Francis Chan illustratively in here [00:00-3:12ff; 08:14ff] on ‘not eating certain foods which are not healthily good’), -in fact many people in general, increasingly seeing, (and as medical science/practice does also “scientifically” substantiate), that there is actually an enduring ‘practical health’ reality in God making a distinction between meats which are clean, and thus healthy/permissible for His people/humans to consume, and those which are not (Gen 7:2-3, 8; Lev 11; Deut 14:1-20),[4] and with Francis Chan, (who is, in my observing, much more well/properly-“bindingly/applicationally”-versed/influenced in/by Old Testament episodes/passages (cf. this humorous exchange [06:08-06:42]), -(as the Apostolic Church also was by the way... (e.g., 1 Cor 10:11)) than the typical “Evangelical” preacher), probably knowing, and wrestling with, quite explicit, even Apocalyptic, passages like Isa 65:4; 66:17 (=Deut 14:8), it seems that he too was surprised that amongst the truck loads of meat that twice was emergencily donated by (‘God through the’) the nearby supermarket were various unclean meats, including “pork chops”. And that may seem to him as an indication that, as claimed by many (mainly non-SDA) Christians, that ‘God now, in the NT Era, no longer is making a distinction between clean vs. unclean meats, let alone is He advocating vegetarism or veganism, (as claims the “Remnant (SDA) Church”).
            Well to me, the Biblical evidence (e.g. here|here) & objectively observable validity of, also, a NT Era, especially, End Time, (i.e. with this planet’s ecosystem steadily deteriorating, including the risks from the vital “need” of using more processed vs. natural sources/method for feeding this world’s high, and increasing, population), “Health Message” are quite Biblical and logical/practical indeed, but/and so, in this experience of Francis Chan, which I personally never had a doubt believing/accepting that it was indeed a miraculous act/orchestration of/by God [which relatedly reminds me of Peter’s experience in Acts 10:9-16, and its pointed purpose/object lesson (Acts 11:1-18)], I do see, in its wider context, that God was here validating what His overarching “Sabbatical principle” is still all about. Meaning, with Francis Chan wanting to do good and help people in need here, and with as a meatless diner would have probably been an undermining influence to people who are accustom to considering a proper meal one which also include a meat serving, then I see it that, since meat eating itself is not a sin,
(And perhaps the indiscriminate: ‘all living, moving creatures’ statement in Gen 9:3-5 may be pointing to the (arguable/SDA-controversial) fact that in a vitally emergency situation, -as was the completed ravage post-Flood world, that God initially, i.e., until the better post-Flood restored days by the time of Israel’s Exodus, permitted that man may, if they had no other ready choice, even eat unclean meats [contra EGW, (however) see here]....it was just that by God have taken 7 clean animals on the ark (=probably: 1 for sacrifice(s) (e.g., Job 1:5; 42:8; cf. Isa 66:3), and 3 pairs for reproduction) vs. 3 of the unclean (Gen 7:2-3, 8) men would much more readily (i.e., at a 3+ to 1 ratio) encounter clean animal to eat, than an unclean one)), that thus God had no actually “sinful” problem/reason in allowing for even unclean meats to be part of what He orchestrated to be donated and served then. Really it is when one factually knows that a diet/practice is detrimental to one’s health, as have become many, especially dietary sources/processes/practices (e.g. high sodium and/or sugar intakes, exaggerated servings/portion size leading to illnesses and sicknesses such as hypertension, diabetes, obesity and heart disease) in our day, yet they continue in it, that they technically do chiefly violate the commandment against self-(slow)-murdering, and thus are not bringing honor/glory to God in their body. (cf. here from David Platt).
            And this is to me quite similar, though comparatively less directly/explicitly how God had, also “supernaturally”, -through the (explicit) Spirit of Prophecy’s Guidance, had led an earlier group of Christians likewise ‘seeking to advance’ (=Dan 12:4, 10) in order to better and best do His recently discovered Biblical will and ways, namely post October 1844 “Adventist” who, in 1858, began to Biblically see that they should also be endeavoring to live according to God’s (practically, thus logically, still binding), dietary/health laws, with some proposing that they should therefore stop eating pork. However God then, probably seeing that such a sudden/stark message, (which again in itself was not ‘directly sinful’; with the spectrum of sinfulness manifestly being, as seen in sins which were to be capitally punished in God’s Israel vs. those which were not, depending on how immediately they affected life, -e.g., murder, homosexuality, bestiality, even promiscuity/adultery as this typically led to violent revenge and could also cause deadly STD outbreaks, and by today, is also fueling the widely-accepted murderous practice of abortion), would prove to be an unmitigated, thus unnecessary, (cold-turkey) “stumbling block” for many of these believers who honestly had not known, nor practiced any better, and were many naturally “appetitely addicted” to such consumed foods, God therefore, as presented here, gave the somewhat surprising (to SDA’s) message to/through His prophet Ellen G. White, that ‘they were not (then) to give this message to stop eating unclean meats such as pork’. It was not until 5 years later, that on June 6, 1863, and perhaps relatedly, 16 days after this group of ca. 3,500 “Adventists” (formally) organized themselves in the SDA Church (on May 21, 1863), that such a message was then given by God.
            And such Spiritual observations and understandings all lead me to the following wider, and all-encompassing “Sabbatical” understanding. It is quite evident that the main, protracted and most deliberate reform done by Jesus Christ was in regards to sabbatical socio-economic issues, which are indeed quite clearly, variously-applicably, prescribed throughout both the Law (e.g., Deut 15) and the Prophets (e.g. Isa 58). And to this end, Jesus, as foundationally discussed in this blog post on God’s (True) Sabbath, most strikingly deliberately did many miracles on the Sabbath to show and emphasize that God’s Sabbath Day and Law was meant to provide various rest, equally for all, and it would not be acceptable that some people would have a need to do extra work on the Sabbath in order to survive while, and inherently because, those who have greater means and capabilities, were selfishly hoarding that “capital”, even making others work for them on the Sabbath. And God also saw His Sabbatical principle widely extending into all aspects of life, (and in fact, the Sabbath is actually theologically representative of all of God’s ideal life (=DA 20.1-21.3; cf. Rom 2:8), where as much as possible, life should be so well righteously ordered, that living it, would be as “workless” simple as is the, in our day, (actually) permissible action of turning on a stove to heat food on the Sabbath to eat. (And with, contrary to the common quibbling claim of many Christians against Sabbath observers: ‘Electricity/Energy-producing and supplying companies being so highly computerized/automated/mechanized that it barely, if even at all, would require human 24-hour assistance or supervision to keep them producing and supplying their normative (Friday (evening) to Saturday (evening) output.). So just like Jesus was showing that the ‘work to do good’ that He was doing on the Sabbath was thus not being considered by as proscribed Sabbath work, likewise, in God at times opting, for higher reasons, to allow the comparatively less detrimental then serving of also unclean meats so as to not cast a bad shadow on those who had honestly sought do God’s will in that special ministering, He does show that His own determinative indicator of/for what He considers sinful, and thus proscribed, is indeed along a spectrum of what is then most detrimental to life, including, Spiritually, Eternal Life. And so, the providing of meat, even also unclean meat, for that meal, probably caused more people to have “faith” and interest in the message of those who had ministered to them, compared to the probable, as tacitly feared, embarrassment of them not being able to “feastingly” provide for these people.
            However the still present “scientific”,  fuller Truth, fact is that a clean food, vegetarian, and vegan diet is ultimately what is best for all, especially in these advanced/latter times of Earth History, including the “practical” fact that the redeemed will not be eating meat in Heaven (cf. Isa 11:9), thus it is better to disfamiliarize oneself of that (sin/Fall-derived) taste/appetite, and thus the need of God’s end time Health Reform Message. And, as brought up by a Dove TV (non-SDA) host here [08:50ff], in the light of a, particularly Western World, having higher rates of various mortal diseases such as cancer, what a better ‘practical testimony’ to give to the world of actually being able to both avoid incurring/developing such diseases, not to mention living 7-10+ (healthy/lively) years longer than those who do not, as is the documented case from people, like SDA’s who have been living according to the Bible and SOP’s Health Laws/Plan & Reform counsels. (See the newscast reports by (e.g.): ABC/GMA, CNN and other).
            Which, all things above-here considered, leads me to an also wider “Great Controversy” understanding. God evidently long foreplanned for the extensive fallout that would come from the expected rejection of Ethnic Israel of their Messiah and the great detriment that would be brought by the almost complete drastic razing of all that God had been working to object-lessonly do through Ethnic Jews and their Religious Economy. And part of this fallout would be in then completely misguided Jews, who would be abandoned by God to their own natural logic and impulses, surely eventually becoming a hated people in the Roman Empire, and even more than the already persecuted Christians, to the point where they were going to be banned as an established people and religion (=Matt 23:37:24:2ff). And this all led to, as crucially presented in this blog post about the NT Era Sabbath to Sunday transference issue, Christians, in the post-95+ A.D, thus post-Apostolic Era, ca. Second Century, days, endeavoring to complete disassociate themselves from the hated Jews, and so leaders increasingly arose who began to claim that Sunday should, at first also, and then only, be kept as a/the “(Christian) Sabbath”. But given the somewhat quasi vital emergency which was caused by the Jewish people becoming increasingly hated, particularly during the relatively brief respite days of ca. 95-125-150 A.D days when the focus of Roman hatred seemed to have then mainly turned towards the more imminent/resurging “national threat” of from the Jews, leading Christians to seek to distinguish and disassociate themselves and their religion, it manifestly was tacitly permitted by God, with then the full adherence to this priorly emergency, ‘Sunday distinguishing’ being later wrongly continued and fully incorporate in times of piece by the Church, thus all fulfilling, as God also expected the Dan 7:25 prediction. (And it indeed is various attempts to “faithlessly” save themselves which lead God’s profess people to act sinfully towards Him, His Laws and His ways, and thus, most fundamentally fulfill Bible prophecies.) Yet God was able to use this relatively sincere historical “Sabbath/Sabbatical” divergence, -(which He actually is now working to rectify, and with the related (Sabbatical) Seal of God (LDE 218.3-222.1) vs. Mark of the Beast issue (e.g, Rev 9:4 ; discussed in here at that verse’s section) not being then (more, let alone most, “fully”) imposed and reckoned against those who, unlike in our day of full (Constitutional/Rights) freedom of (Christian) religion/worship, did not know or (honestly) suspect any better), to, like through the accepted, ‘in genuine faith’ (=Rom 14:23), lying-saving by Rahab (Jos 1:5; Matt 1:5; Heb 11:31; James 2:25); or actual outright life-saving concealment/deception (1 Sam 16:1-5; 1 Sam 21:12-15; Gen 12:11-13ff, 17-20; Gen 20:1-7ff, 11-13ff); was able to (Plan B-ly) preserve His Church then, also in the light of all of the lawlessness against Christians then. (Cf. the intriguing, evidently Biblical, (similar) claim made by Jim Staley (PFT) here [01:01:32-01:02:22] in regards to the ‘Divinely-(re)made-to-be-salvageabky-purposeful’, (pervasive and wide) dispersion of the apostasied Northern Ten Tribes of Israel amongsts the Gentiles/nations.).
            Yet though God does allow, use and in some degree turn-for-the-better, various such (sincere) “Plan-B” endeavors by His people, there always still are adversarial consequences which need to be then dealt with, and which would not have ever come to exist had God’s Plan-A mandate been staunchly followed instead. And so indeed is the case of the non-mandated slighting of God’s Sabbath by Early, Second Century Believers, a (convenient)-tradition-creating act which was again, later wrongly enshrined as normative by the formal actions of the (Catholic/Universal) Church, as it was then in a time/era of non-permitting peace. (Telling to consider at this point the (Biblical) Jewish tradition claim, which Jesus may have also gone by to some degree, that in order to preserve life, God can, and has/does, allow for the violation of any of his laws. E.g., to prevent someone being murdered, it then is lawful to defensively kill. And as in the Rahab case, it is even allowed to (quite lesserly) lie. So likewise, God may have allowed for His also Ten Commandment Law Sabbath to be validly, emergencily effectively affected by Christians at first also worshipping on Sunday to distinguish and/or later serve to distinguish, themselves from Jews. Likewise, as surfacely objectionable as it may seem, if someone threatens to kill them if they do not have sexual relations with them, or someone else, then it may also be here relatively acceptable to also violate that command to preserve life. Indeed, comparatively, in OT days, in order to, for specific “posterity” necessities, create life it was lawfully permissible, indeed also prescribed, -as discussed here, for a man to have more than one wife (cf. e.g. Deut 21:15-17), or, even if married, have marital, (inherently, or unobstructingly (cf. Gen 38:8-10) pro-creating sexual relations with a widow and childless wife of his brother (Deut 25:5-6,7-10); both actions which actually would otherwise be classified as adultery.
            And yet, most justly and fittingly by God, for those who will have in such cases where, pointedly, their own life is unlawfully threatened if they do not violate any of God commandments, chosen/opted to make the ultimate, inherently testifying, “martyrdom” sacrifice of their own life rather than to violate any of God’s commandment instead, the Bible and SOP shows that such people will be specially rewarded by God with a “martyr’s reward”, which is the “better resurrection” (Heb 11:35, 36-39), which is them being raised up soon after that and being, bodily, (uniquely) taken early to Heaven.

            So all this to say that in such, and all Biblical, Spiritual things, indeed as it is also helpful to righteously clarify certain episodes in the Bible, it is helpful to look for, and consider any attenuating, especially lawless and life-threatening circumstances, which God manifestly justly takes into consideration, to determine what exactly is God’s (Ultimate) will. And so, just as lying, killing, committing (“technical”) adultery, is inherently not God’s will, an attenuating, sincere and relatively (incontrovertible) circumstance, -and all according to a ‘sin spectrum’, can validate that God may allow such things to be, again, in acceptable genuine faith/sincerity, be sinlessly done, -as a permitted Plan B measure, though, not without the inherent adverse consequences that He wisely knows that such Plan B actions will most likely, even surely, also entail. So does the miracle done/allowed by God in Francis Chan’s ministry endeavor serve as “proof” that God really does not care what you eat...well only if the Bible did not actually showed that He wants His people to ‘physically be in health just as they also are to be Spiritually, growingly healthy.’ (3 John 1:2) So such permitting by God is actually all due to a more expedient, emergency, and comparatively less-overall-benign, circumstance, and not actually His ideal will.[5]

May 26, 2014
So, Logically/Realistically, When Will Believers “Stand Before God” (2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:10-13)
            It is interesting to hear from Francis Chan, typically within his “Holiness of God” exhorting how he emphasizes, as manifestly many other (Evangelical) Christians also Biblically understand and believe, indeed from clear passages like 2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10-13 (cf. Heb 10:26-30; 1 John 4:17), that Christians will indeed also ‘appear before the Judgement seat of Christ’, and that ‘to give an answer for all of their works’; -with indeed Jesus Himself doing that work in behalf of God the Father (John 5:22, 27, 30; 8:16). For a while it seemed to me that the proclaiming that Biblical Truth, i.e., as taught by the (mainly SDA held/preached), indeed “Investigative” Judgement (=Rev 14:6-7; cf. Rom 2:16), -which, according to exact prophetic reckoning, has indeed started on, actually October 13, 1844 [it could/should/would have been completed by October 22, 1844] has been, and still is, knee-jerkedly, vehemently railed against as a heresy by most Christians. Yet the Bible is variously quite clear that (professing) Believers also will be examined/judged by Christ, indeed to determine if their profession and response to the Gospel call was sincere and true (=Matt 22:1-14).
            People have typically cited John 5:24 to claim that ‘believers are not judged’, but that is actually not being understood in its full exegetical/procedural context. I.e., (and succinctly/summarily stated here), it is first of all key to exegetically be aware of and understand that the Greek uses three distinct key/technical terms (cf. in here at Rev 18:10) which have usually been glibly translated as “judge” by Bible versions: These are, with their modern, English technical meanings, and also in procedural order:

-krino (#2919) - indict/charge -e.g. Mat 5:40; 19:28; Luke 7:43; John 7:24; Rev 18:20a; 19:11*
-krisis (#2920) - court trial -e.g. Matt 5:21-22; 12:36; 10:15; John 7:24; 12:31; 16:8, 11; Heb 9:27; cf. Jude 1:15’s “righteous-(trial) judgments” [= #1342+#2920]
-krima (#2917) - condemn/sentence -e.g. Matt 23:14; Mark 12:40; Luke 23:40; 1 Tim 3:6; Heb 6:2; James 3:1; Rev 18:20b
* Discussed in here at the Rev 19:11 section.

            So, specifically, technically, John 5:24, which uses the ‘mid-procedural’ term “krisis” (#2920), is pointedly stating that the believer’s “indictment” (“krino”) will not have been pressed/maintained (cf. John 5:20 e.g. Gen 18:20-21), and thus will not be put forth to a court/trial judgement process. So then how is this reconcilable with all of those other ‘judging of believers’ passages?? Well this is actually best understood when it is also judicially involved that prior to indictments/charges being formally laid against a person, there is to first be a process during which that person is formally “investigated” concerning the accusations being made against them. In our Law and Order system, this is done by the police and/or grand jury upon having received a formal complaint/accusation from someone in the population. In NT times, under the Roman system, this was comparatively done at a “(tribunal) judgement (Gr. bema) seat” (=2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:10; e.g., Acts 25:6-7, 10, 17; Acts 18:12, 17; cf. Matt 27:19|John 19:13). And once that review/“investigation”/judicious weighing is complete, with the accused having had the opportunity/chance to answer them, then is the judicious decision taken as to whether or not there is sufficient evidence to formally indict/charge them of those accusations (e.g., Acts 25:10) and send them to a formal trial. If that preliminary investigative step/process was not part of the judicial procedure, then a person would have to straightly go through a trial upon any accusation made against them, without any opportunity to demonstrate their innocence, and clear their name.
            And so it is in God’s own judicial system. In here the reporting, documenting and filing “police” work is done by angels and the peer weighing and overseeing duties of a “grand jury” is done by human representatives from other (unfallen) planets/galaxies. (Cf. Dan 7:10; Rev 5:11) Since all have sinned, they therefore deserve to be straightly indicted and adjudged by God. But God has through Christ provided the plan of Salvation which indeed can prevent the believer to being judged, pointedly for these sins (=John 5:24), since these sins will have been covered up by the blood of Christ. But it is then to first be determined if these professing believers can indeed have their names cleared and record cleansed, and so here is the place and necessity of the ‘preliminary and review/investigation’ done by Christ (=Matt 22:1-14; cf. Rev 19:7-9 (see GC 479-491 (esp. GC 482.1 =Matt 12:36-37); COL 307-319); Zech 3:1-7|PK 582-592; Matt 10:32-33/Luke 12:8-10|2 Tim 2:12b = Rev 3:3-6) a.k.a. the “(Pre-Advent) Investigative Judgement”). (1 Pet 4:17-18 is a cognate passage here, however it pointedly refers to the condemnation sentencing execution (=krima), and is thus evidently based on the Ezek 9 (apocalyptic) prophetic episode. (cf. Rom 2:9))
            And as, passages like 1 Tim 5:24 show, there are many deeds/works which people do, which are “clear-cut” as to what their nature and intent is (=Rom 1:18-32; Luke 12:47-48), and therefore automatically indict those who have committed them, and with the rest of their ‘less capital’ evil works “following after them” to that upcoming trial. But on the flip side, Jesus has stated/shown in John 3:19 that an accepting response to the Light of His Gospel message is what determines if a person will be “indicted/charged” (krino), thus involving whether they had passed His preliminary investigative review. Yet, and as also express in Francis Chan’s (here) & David Platt’s (here) statements/messages which rightly decry the misleading “Sinner’s Prayer” heresy (as also done here by Ray Comfort’s ministry -{disregarding their prior, own (typical) incorrect Sabbath Day view leading up to that segment[6]; ditto in regards to Francis Chan’s non-Biblical objections here/here -mp3}[7] and also in this show[02:48-16:01]) {-Interesting to see that (the recently widely popular-ized (e.g. here|here|here))[8] (SDA) U.S. Senate Chaplain Barry Black has, -on top of his “undignified charismatic” acting/preaching, conversely also become a big fan of that mystical “prayer”: e.g. here[14:18ff] & here|here[45:46ff]}this is not determined merely by the verbal, especially “one time”, profession/confession of people, -with that popular fallacious view probably based on a perverting understanding of Rom 10:9, but by whether or not they had ‘obediently, (truly) faith-fully, worked out their salvation’ (e.g., Phil 2:12-13; Rom 2:13=James 1:22-27; 2:14-26; Heb 3:12-15ff; 10:26-29). For, indeed as Jesus Himself also stipulated, He will based His judgements on one’s (faith-proving/demonstrating) works/deeds (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12; Rom 2:5-7; Jude 1:15; cf. 1 Pet 1:17-19; Rev 2:26). So that mid-process, “krisis” court trial phase for those who had failed the prior indictment deliberations will be in regards to concretely revealing just why these people, -which will indeed also include professed believers, had not been given the same “blanket sins-pardoning” acceptance by Jesus Christ as those, relatively variously “perservering” ones, whose names had remained in His Book of Life. (cf. Rev 3:10). -And confirmingly enough, a compounded form of the term krino as dia-krino (#1252; -lit. ‘through indictment’), actually is used to indicate ‘pivotal issues/circumstances of genuine/inherent doubt’ (e.g. Matt 21:21; Mar 11:23; Acts 10:20; 11:2, 12) which require ‘wise discernment to “distinguish”’ (e.g. Matt 16:3; Jam 2:4) and thus is quite fitting of the inherent uncertain circumstance when someone has been “indicted”, but has not yet been transparently proven, through formal testing/trial (=krisis), to be guilty or innocent. (e.g.  Jud 1:9; discussed in here). In fact, the same question will also be posed about certain unevangelized/“non-believers” who had been saved by Jesus (cf. Matt 25:34-40; Rom 2:11-16; Acts 10:34-35-expounded here[28:25-30:44-31:40] (mp3) by Doug Batchelor; Acts 17:30-31-‘(genuine) “ignorance” [still] winked at, manifested righteousness upheld’; cf. this (though not-adequately-Bible-substantiated) sermon by Anil Kanda) while others in the same “unevanglized” circumstance as them will not be “recognized” (cf. Matt 7:21-23) by Jesus. Fact indeed is, Jesus is more interested in saving anyone who does all what he/she knows to be right, than a person who merely knows all that is right. (Matt 7:21; Luke 10:37; John 13:17; Rom 2:13; Jam 1:22-25ff)...And as He will evidently indeed not be “technically” holding “non-believers” responsible for ‘not believing’ (cf. John 3:36), -indeed certainly for ‘not even knowing at all’, when Christians, pointedly “Babylonian”/Western “Christians” with their world-confusing 30,000 Christian denominations (contra. John 17:11, 21-23) and almost unreckonizable shades of (“freed-domly”) further segmenting free-wheeling “beliefs” (contra. John 17:17), have, at best, -(and especially mainly through not exercising Biblical Church discipline (e.g. Matt 18:15-18) (e.g. in regards to “propagandizing” actual/faithful church membership (e.g. here(37%) & here(ca. 40%))); only given a completely confusing, thus: “black light”, at best worthless, thus unbinding, “hear-say” “testimony”, of what the “gospel” is. (impeding John 3:19-21 & Matt 24:14).
            Indeed Jesus is more concerned with someone who follows/obeys ‘all that He has taught’ (Matt 28:20) than people vacuously professing to ‘know about, or even, “believe” in, Him’. Which all then means/involves that believers “doing tangible good works” (Eph 2:10) even more paramount than mere “evangelism” since God will be judging everyone according to a genuine relative curve, and until the Christian Church today can give a tangible demonstration of what the Kingdom of God is truly all about, -and it certainly is not the “Liberty” = Freedom of Sin (contra. Gal 5:13) “Great Satan” (=Rev 13:11ff) delusion of Babylonian=(Protestant) American/Western/First World Christians, now systematically encapsulated in their Capitalistic, even Mixed Economy, system, with its fundamental covetousness & murderous selfishness (EW 266-269). Instead of being used for ‘competition, individualism and self-concerned personal pursuits’, as preached by the “Great Satan” representative on Earth, the Christ given Freedom|Liberty is instead to be used ‘to serve one another’. (Gal 5:13). So the paramount mission and mandate of the Christian in fulfillment of Christ’s Gospel Commission is not to merely “proclaim/preach the Gospel” but to live it out as Jesus did (=COL 415.1-418.1ff), which will result in them, even self-sacrificially, working to do good for anyone who is in need (Acts 10:37 = being His “witnesses” (Acts 1:8; Matt 24:14); -with all of the Apostles also meeting the various, especially vital needs of others by doing many ‘(+healing) good works’ (e.g. Acts 2:43-45; 5:14-16; 8:5-7, 13; 9:36-43; 14:3, 7-10; 19:10-13; 20:7-12; 28:8; cf. Matt 10:8; Mar 16:17-18) with most of them, like Christ, being miraculous in cases where they could not naturally or resourcefully do otherwise (e.g. Acts 3:6)) and thus providing an opportunity for truly, i.e., in righteousness, vs. America’s Satanically enslaving sinfulness (Rom 6:15-23), bettering their life, and especially if this will be the only life they ever live...for that is what God Himself has been doing. (Matt 5:43-48)!!

            Quite indicative/confirming enough, Paul, in Rom 8:1, made the well-known declaration that: “there is no condemnation” for those who are in Christ”. And from what has been Biblically discovered above, and also from Paul, in regards to ‘God’s/Christ’s “(investigative) judging” of Believer’, it can be straightly understood, pointedly as the Greek term krima is involved here, that Paul meant that: ‘the (tangibly/demonstratedly) (=True) Believer (=John 5:24; James 2:14-26; {cf. the (in)famous (related) illustration of Francis Chan}; Heb 5:9; Acts 5:32), will not be “condemned”, but there is something more specific being stated here as the krima term is actually compounded as katakrima (#2631 -also used in Rom 5:16, 18) which means “according to condemnation”, woodenly producing the phrase: “there is nothing according to condemnation/sentencing”. (And from the distinguishing usage between those two term in Rom 5:16, katakrima even can can loosely be understood to technically refer to a “full (losing) prosecution”).
            So Paul’s expression here can be understood to mean that: ‘the True Believer in Christ will never reach the distinct judicial stage of being in a position to being (adjudged according to being) condemned.’ Indeed they will never reach that stage because Christ will mercifully not have permitted them to ever be indicted in God’s Court for starters, as all of their (inherently) indictable sins will have been expunged, of course only if they have “persevered” to receive that Redeeming Provision (e.g., Rom 2:6-7; cf. 1 Cor 9:24-27, and as relatedly, (=Matt 10:28), cited by Francis Chan in a sermon: 2 Tim 2:12a; Heb 3:14; Col 1:22-23; Rev 2:10; -(cf. here [01:28:45-01:32:13] from Jim Staley (PFT))). So the ‘indicting/charging (=“krino”) of “the living and the dead”’ in 2 Tim 4:1 can, sustainedly, only be applicable to the unsaved.
            Moreover, from Paul’s usage of katakrima in Rom 5:16, 18, where he directly pits it against “justification” [and, also significantly, “transgression” is antonymly pitted against “righteousness (i.e., “right-doing”)]; it is indeed theologically seen/confirmed that this “preliminary (investigative) judging” at Christ’s (quasi lower court) judgement seat is one which determines if the sinner is worthy to be justified, and thus released, or charged as committed, and fully prosecuted, and surely “condemned”....And, Rom 8:30, it is: ‘these whom He “justified/declare righteous”, {those who ‘have, -in their ensuing lives, permitted their names “to have remained written (Phil 4:3) in the Book of Life”’ (Rev 21:27 -Greek perfect participle; =Rev 3:5; cf. Psa 69:28)}, who He “is to [i.e. later] glorify”’ (-Greek (proleptic/futuristic) indicative aorist)! As “the Judge” equivalently (i.e., interdependently =Jam 2:22, 24, 26) states: “All will be justified by their faith and judged by their works.” (4T 386.2), -which is indeed how, as also explained here, some “professed believers” may have their names, deferentially ‘in/by their faith’, duly noted/written in the Book of Life, yet still end up failing that Matt 25:31-46 “White Throne” Judgement (=Rev 20:11-15)!!

            So then, when do Christians Believer make their “appearance” before that ‘investigative tribunal of Christ’?? Since, according to the Christ Himself/the Bible, (True) Believers will not be ‘(trialed) judged’ (John 5:24 = “krisis”), then the statement in Heb 9:27, which also uses that technically/judicially specific ‘trial judgment’ krisis term, cannot, -(moreover as the ‘living righteous will never die (the first death)’, -(in the antitypical fulfillment (i.e., vs. here)): ‘solely “being left/remaining* alive upon Christ’s appearance’ (=1 Thess 4:17; Matt 24:28, 37-41|Luke 17:34-37 (cf. 2 Thess 2:8 = Rev 19:17-21)), be applicable to (True, =Saved) Believers. Nor, clearly, is it after Christ’s Coming, indeed with Christ merely executing/administering (indictment) decisions then, -which is “justifyingly” based on (James 2:14-26): ‘genuine faith (cf. also e.g. Rom 14:23) & faith-proving works’. (=E.g., John 5:28-29 (=Dan 12:2); Matt 16:27; 25:31-33ff; Jude 1:14-15; Rev 22:12). Therefore it can only be before!

* Moreover with the Greek word translated as “left” in those famously-cited/quoted passages being “aphiemi” [Strongs #863], (and not (also), as in 1 Thess 4:17, derivedly from “leipo” [= #4035 from #3007]), which is a term which means: “leave alone” (Mar 14:6), as in “being forgiven”(Matt 6:12, 14, 15; Luke 7:47), “allowed” (Matt 5:40; 7:4; Luke 8:51), “permitted” (Rev 11:9), “tolerated”(Acts 5:38). Surely the wicked will not be ‘forgiven’ then (2 Tim 4:1; Rev 22:10-15).

            But how can Christians alive today make this Pre-Advent appearing....and also will they know about it? Well passages like Rev 2:23; Luke 16:15; John 2:24-25; Rom 2:15-16; which show that Jesus, being God, (also) ‘looks into, and judges from, the hearts and minds’ of people, make it very easy for Jesus to do this investigating while people are alive. And since He has already, clearly given the warning of this judging to His followers, then, especially if things are to be candidly, (-for even the most hardened criminal will find, and wear a suit when appearing in court), thus most fairly/truthfully either way, determined, and thus reveal whether or not that believer’s faith is sincere/genuine, then the investigated person actually should not be told exactly when their case/life will be reviewed. Indeed just like a police agency conducting an investigation on someone based on accusations made against them, will not first go to that person and tell them that they are about to put them under surveillance, with implanted microphone and concealed cameras and routine displacement trailings to determine whether or not their conduct is blameless.

            And then, in God’s fairness, as revealed in Rev 11:18-19, when the “time” will have come for that judgement process to unfold, God will then make clear His standard of Holiness, Justice and Righteousness, which defines what He will consider as indictably sinful, by Him making, -(as per Francis Chan’s ‘Isa 6’ message), His Throne, which is represented by the Ark of the Covenant (Exod 25:22; 1 Chr 13:6; 2 Kgs 19:15 & Psa 89:14; 97:2) return to mindfulness/“view” of men, with that Ark most prominently enclosing His Ten Commandment Law (Matt 19:17; James 1:25; 2:10-12; Rom 3:31; 7:7; 13:9). Do see more on this “Investigative Judgement” topic here & and also this presentation.
            ...And so, theologically and topically relatedly, contrary to a common knee-jerk claim as similarly: glibly, novicely, isolatively, eisegetically and prooftextingly (-as is the patent modus operandi for all false teachings) slanderously attemptingly made (likewise priorly, and then) here [3:24-4:28] contra EGW’s-SOP, what was “finished” at the Cross, with Jesus understandingly saying so (John 19:28-30), was not actually: ‘‘the work and result of redemption of all’ (who would actually believe -John 3:14-18)’, but rather God’s own (new) covenantal part in providing the substitutionary mean, provision & opportunity for the justification of anyone who would have faith in this sacrificial death of Christ. (=PP 208.1) Indeed that is what the book of Hebrews, (probably, {and really only capably, i.e. authoritatively and acceptingly, being} written by Paul himself), from Chapter 4:14-10:39ff, -after having established what he himself actually considers part of the ‘“elementary/ “milk”/beginner’s level” -(which is for: ‘not yet Spiritual nor Wise, but still immature and fleshly, people’ (=1 Cor 3:1-3, 16-17; 2:6-16; Isa 28:7-13; cf. John 3:3ff|1SM 108-111; Dan 12:3-4, 10)), teachings/oracles/revelations of the Christian faith’ (Heb 5:11-6:3) that: Jesus the “Messiah” was the incarnate God (Heb 1-3ff), most explicitly and clearly emphasizes (i.e. Heb 8:1-2ff), namely: there was still a continuing, High Priestly, work, which had been clearly represented in the OT Sanctuary Services (e.g. Heb 9:12-14), which had to be done, now by Jesus Christ Himself, and in the original Heavenly Sanctuary (e.g. Heb 9:11, 24), in regards, and in order, to put away sins, as made possible ‘by that once and for all forgiveness Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross’ (Heb 9:26). {Cf. this “Gospel of Wherever (Jesus ‘Presently’ Is)” sermon[9] (~Rev 14:4; cf. this sermon(-certain key correcting here))}. Indeed the blood of the Sacrifice in the Courtyard Altar served as the “grease|fuel” which made the entire Sanctuary work, and thus completely accomplish its “sanctifying”, thus ‘fully restoring’, purposes. (In fact, the whole Sanctuary establishment and such functioning elements of it, and not just the paschal lamb, are comprehensing symbolic representations of Jesus (E.g. John 2:19-22; 6:48-58))[10] That also is the pointed message of Heb 10:11-18ff which states that: ‘through that ‘one, New Covenant effecting/ratifying, Sacrifice’ (Matt 26:26-28), -which indeed, ‘comparatively’, only had to be offered a single time, Jesus was from then on able to:  continuously perfect/finish/complete those who are (from then or presently) being sanctified (Heb 10:14 -Greek present passive participle) and that through/within the blood-inaugurated Heavenly Sanctuary, and with/through His blood-applying/implementing High Priestly work (Heb 10:19-23 =Heb 6:19-20ff);...a righteousness-producing and -maintaining work (cf. Rev 3:5; 16:15; 19:8) which is to be reflected on Earth, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, through the Law-fulfilling loving and good deeds (e.g., Matt 22:34-40; Rom 13:8-10; James 2:8-13ff; 1 John 3:17-22) of those who are in Christ’s present Earthly Temple, His (congregating/fellowshipping) Church (Heb 10:24-25) both individually (1 Cor 3:16-17) and collectingly-corporately (Eph 2:19-22)’ (=1SM 397.1-398.2).
            Moreover the exposition in Hebrews is rightly laced with various admonishments of the repenting sinners own part in, and by “growing up” (Heb 5:11-6:3), ensuring that this forgiveness provision to/towards them is, through faith -demonstrated by corresponding works (Heb 11), enduringly sustained. (e.g. Heb 6:4-8; 10:26-39). So as relatedly expounded upon by EGW in DA 758-764 in that Chapter (#79) entitled “It Is Finished”(cf. this exposition), the overarching “Great Controversy” judicial accusation of Satan that: ‘God could not be both just and merciful, and thus could not spare the life of anyone who would ever sin’, was silenced at, and by, the Cross, which simultaneously “religiously” had proven valid God’s Plan of Salvation for sinners. But as hinted at in the last paragraph there, in DA 764.4 (cf. in here), there was/is still an enjoining ‘salvation work’ from prospectively benefitting individuals that needs to be “energetically” done (=Rev 12:10-12 discussed in here), all by being submissive to God, to ensure the application of this redeeming gift (=Phil 2:12-13; 2 Pet 1:3-11 = PP 208.1a; see here).

            And an additional, most interesting exegetical understanding that is seen here is that, with  Paul revealing in 2 Tim 4:1 that the, as already seen above, ‘‘wicked’ “living and dead”’ will merely be indicted/charged (=krino) at, actually, as stated later, some time following, Christ’s appearing (cf. Rev 19:11), and as this is the preceding judicial step to their ensuing trial judgement (=krisis), then that means that even the ‘post-death trial judgement of the wicked’ (Heb 9:27), will not have begun/been done before the Second Coming. That would thus mean that it is only the righteous which experience any degree of “judging” prior to the Second Coming, which is merely in their preliminary Investigative Judgement which clears all the preserving righteous ones of any indictment/charges. (Thus the ones failing this investigation are only indicted upon Christ’s return, as starkly seen by either, for the living, them being struck dead upon His glorious appearing or, for the already dead, them being left in their grave. (John 5:28-29; Rev 20:5-6)). And collating John 5:29b with Rev 20:6, it is indeed seen that the Second Resurrection is the one which precedes this “(trial) judging” (=krisis) of the wicked....with the victorious righteous themselves doing the ensuing “sentencing” (=krima) (=Rev 20:4; cf. Rev 5:9-10; 7:13-15; 20:6; =GC 660.4-661.2).
            Ponderings reveal that under a “Plan A” Second Coming scenario of Rev 19:11-16ff) -where a typological Jubilee Temporal Millennium is allowed involving the wicked living to testifyingly see the tangible establishment and flourishing of the Zionistic Israel of God Kingdom (=Rev 11:15-19; Rev 21:24-27), the Rev 19:11 ‘post-(here typological)-Second Coming’ “indicting/charging” of the wicked actually protractively takes place over the course of this Jubilee Era, as/if the wicked continue in their unrighteous way, then in the light/face of this rebuking, most clear testimony of God’s Truth and Kingdom. And then, when that Jubilee period is over, and upon the Second Resurrection, all the dead are then also indicted/charged at the White Throne Judgement (Rev 20:12; =GC 666.2).
            And that most interesting observation from these exegetical points is that, though the indicting and trial judging of the wicked actually occurs sometime after the Second Coming, it is clear that a “decision” as to who is saved/resurrected (=not indicted) and who is not, has already been firmly made by then (cf. Rev 22:11). So then, on what is that binding decision-making based on if it is not through a trial judgement. Succinctly summarized here, this all highlights the way that both: one’s confession and one’s effecting life/deeds actually serve as, what is judicially called “prima facie” (= “on its face” =1 Tim 5:25), actionable evidence of what they actually “believe”. So, as stated in Matt 7:21-23, a person may be saying “Lord, Lord”, but their “lawless” life/deeds clearly speak otherwise; and on the other hand, Matt 25:37-40 a person may not know to say “Lord, Lord” but their law-honoring deeds towards others has made them be made/declared “righteous” by the Judge Jesus (=Rom 2:13-16; Acts 17:30-31; cf. Rev 19:8). So, even greater than one’s ‘faith confession’, it indeed is their (proofing) deeds (e.g. 2 Cor 5:10; Rev 22:12; 20:12-13) which determine their ‘justifying righteousness’. (James 2:14-26).
            Therefore, it is manifest that one, from both the OT/BC and NT/AD Era, can, (mercifully), quite easily get to have their name written into the Lamb’s/Christ’s, always existent (cf. e.g. Exod 32:32-33; Psa 69:28; Dan 7:10; Rev 13:8; 17:8; 20:12), Book of Life, upon, all because of the available sin pardoning mercy of God, either their initiating confession of belief, or, completely unwittingly (i.e., cf. Phil 4:3), as they are living a life of righteous deeds/acts (Rev 19:7-9; e.g. Luke 10:19-20) which/as fulfills God’s Law (Rom 13:8-10; cf. Matt 7:21-23), -and manifestly God can actually easily/understandingly pardon a person who effectively “does not (know to) love” Him, -not knowing that they should be keeping the first 4 of the Ten Commandments (Matt 22:37-38), but has deliberately lived a life where they are most loving towards their fellow man which they ‘can/do see’. (cf. 1 John 4:20-21). And so God has manifestly been, from the Fall, inscribing people to be save in His Book of Life, pointedly based upon how they have acted, and in proportionate regards to the Light of Truth that they have had. That is also applicably why, as Rom 1:18-32 states, people who may have been ignorant of God’s Moral Law, but have basely/“instinctly” acted, indeed as unthinking animals, against the clearly observable Natural Law, will be held responsible for these lawless deeds. (Cf. Rev 21:27; 22:15; Pro 6:12-14; 16-19). And indeed, as Jesus expressed in John 5:30: ‘As I hear, I “indict”, then judge’. (And this is actually exactly how things had judicially proceeded when ‘Abraham had seen His day’ (John 8:56|Gen 18:1-8), as Jesus was then setting out to investigate (Gen 18:21, 22-32), then (inherently) trial judged/tested (cf. Gen 19:10-11), and then destroyed the judgement failing (Ezek 16:47-50) Sodom and Gomorrah+ (Gen 19:24-25)). And it is manifestly this righteousness/“right-doing”-relative criteria used in saving those written in the Book of Life which ‘set the (judicial) curve’ for how the wicked will be tried and sentenced (Rev 20:12b).
            And therefore, the first of the pre-Second Coming Final Warning Messages in Rev 14:7, which itself revolves squarely on the “Everlasting Gospel” (Rev 14:6), is pointedly addressing all those who, as discussed above, have been either professing, and/or manifesting, “believers/(righteous) “acters”” throughout the world, and thus, who have had their names defaultly written in the Book of Life, but are now to have that honorific inscribing verified/examined/reviewed. This, effectively “special judgement” session is indeed exegetically supported as this session is qualified as an “hour” of judgement (=krisis). This is in direct contrast to the way in which this :judgement is typically mentioned in the Bible/NT, as a (full) “day”. (e.g., Matt 10:15; 12:36; 2 Pet 2:9; 3:7; Jude 1:6). So here, distinguishingly, it is only one hour (representatively, merely a (1/24th, -actually 1/12th) part of that future fuller/overall “judgement” (=krisis) day which is now made to transpire. And that indeed is merely its most preliminary (“police”) investigation part.[11]
            And telling enough, (1) that First Message pointedly calls people to follow more closely their Creator, and that through the all inclusive, Sabbatical Living provisions which He has given. (Rev 14:7b = Exod 20:11). And that indeed pointedly, duly/rightly starts with a judicial/reckoning“measuring/examining” of, indeed failing*, SDAs (=Rev 11:1-2; =Rev 7:4a’s “tribe of Judah”). Then, (2) in the Second Message (Rev 14:8), are the remaining 11 tribes of God’s NT Israel pointedly admonished (=Rev 11:2ff). And then (3) the rest of the world through the Third Angel’s Message (Rev 14:9-11). And finally, (4) in one all-inclusive/“threefold” (=e.g. Mar 173.5), last gasp, -as all of those, including (presently smug/indifferent/“Pharisaical” (Matt 5:20)) SDAs, who would have failed to properly heed those three callings, are even more entrenched in that, correspondingly, deceptively ‘seamlessly “three-tiered”’ Babylon (=Rev 16:19; =from its ‘6th-8th|(~5th) mirroring “heads|mountains|kings”’ Rev 17:9-11), Fourth Calling in Rev 18:1-5; which over is thematically couched in the Third Angel’s Message (e.g., LDE 201.1-6).

* Biblically enough, the “rebels” who are said to fail the reviewing of God, and thus are, as with the wicked, are due/doomed to undergo His ensuing judicial processes (=Heb 10:26-27), are those who, relatedly: ‘have opted not to live Godly’ (2 Tim 3:12); and thus did not even need to be proven righteous and faithful by God through allowed persecutive testings (2 Thess 1:4-5); which is a “proving” that is chiefly seen through, as Jesus Himself showed (John 15:12-13), a maintained, even self-sacrificial (Mark 10:34; Matt 10:38-39), love of/for others (cf. 2 Thess 1:3)... and also not merely “the brethren”, but also as with Jesus, the rest of the perishing, even hating (as it was for Christ on the Cross), world. And all of this is to be manifested through maintained “merciful” good works towards them (=Luke 10:25-29ff; Luke 10:36-37; (=Luke 6:36|Matt 5:48; context: Luke 6:27-35|Matt 5:43-47)), in order to help them meet their Spiritual and Vital need. Those who are about these ‘most loving&merciful things’ will indeed have no fear at all in regards to God’s judgement (1 John 4:17 (cf. 1 John 3:17); James 2:13)), being indeed thus ‘most Godly’ (=Luke 6:36|Matt 5:48; John 3:16) and so will indeed stand victorious with the Lamb that they have followed after (=Rev 14:1-5).

            So, recapping here {cf. 2 Cor 5:10 = Eccl 12:13-14 = Rev 14:6-7}, one actually gets their name written in the Book of Life pointedly upon their acted out “self-evident” (1 Tim 5:25) righteous deeds (cf. John 5:29), and from then on, the course of their life determines if their names are kept or erased out of this book (Rev 3:5). And then, at a special time prior to Christ’s Glorious (Second) Coming, a, merely Reviewing/Investigating Judgement session in God’s Throne Room (=Most Holy Place) is set up and executed where all of the names in the Book of Life (=Dan 7:9-10, 13-14), starting with the names of the dead, to show to all that these inscribed and maintained names were worthy to have been justified and reckoned/recorded as saved by Christ, including whether or not any ensuing sins had been confessed so that they now can be fully “put away”. It is evidently because of many surfacely controversial names which will be in this Book that God has opened it up for review by the whole universe, both angels and (surely through chosen representatives) other (unfallen) humans...(who all had other things to do than to monitor the lives of everyone who has been living on this lone fallen planet). As depicted in the Earthly Sanctuary, this judgement process will also clear God and His Throne Room from the, thus tangible record of accumulated confessed sins (TM 157.2), now that this, as discussed in this post, disculpating evidencing process is done...no need to keep a record of this now exhausted evidence.


June 15, 2014
‘“Advent-ist” in Mind Pining'
            Again...to hear Francis Chan’s quasi-lamenting, frantic, longing at 10:33-17:24ff in his Dec. 9, 2012 (#78) sermon here entitled: “Advent and Waiting in Faith”, (cf. this 10-26-2003 sermon [at 11:42-14:44]), would seem that he would wish that, at the very least, he was, -as he, (seemingly, nominatively-curtailingly), put it: ‘(“just like Bible people”), called|known to be|described|“labeled” as: an ‘Adventist’’! (particularly, related to what is discussed just above, the Millerites also were indeed (essentially) not wrong about something prophetic to occur on (or really around) Oct 22 (really beginning on 13), 1844 (=Dan 7:9-10ff; = EW 240-245-250-253)...-which would indeed have been Final Events and the Second Coming by Oct 22, 1844) And that was indeed/again quite odd for me to hear, -particularly coming from, and being reflective of, grown/adult/(even aging/dying), Christians, -{and by the way, as seen from here [06:06-09:54] ([fuller segment](cf. valid (SDA)-honing comments here)|[full episode]) Roman Catholics evidently do not believe in a/any “fundamentalist” Second Coming}, because, having been born, raised, followed in and loitered around Seventh-Day Adventist circles all my life, you frankly have to, to use the converse of what Chan express: ‘tie a ribbon around your fingers to remind you not to think that: ‘“Because prophesied Final Events are (supposedly) ‘Coming {1997|2005}’ Jesus is (‘Surely’) Returning Back Soon”... Ready or Not {1997}” and is Even at the Door {1994}”, so we’re Almost Home {2000}”’...-as patently, somehow, heard/included/infused in virtually every/any sermon; cf. an entirely dedicated 2014 Camp Meeting  here|here; -{not to mention the SDA-(for 1962 GC)-composed Second Coming hymn #214We Have This Hope”, (cf. here), (which we, at my home church in Miami, used to (also) dedicatedly sing at its appointed time/segment during every Sabbath Service (cf. e.g., these services at 1:28:37ff; 1:46:29ff; 1:25:17ff; 1:28:27ff});....(or rather, as it has been applicable for my “Rev 7:1-3ff prophetic prolonged time case”, just keep taking into consideration the various “Reality Checking” factual/prophetic/theological reminders which loudly show why “Jesus won’t be (“antitypologically”) coming back soon!! (=Amos 5:18-20, 21-24; DA 825.4 ))...Indeed SDA’s have been using this mere lip-service and/or innately glib mindless grandstanding “(soon) Second Coming” professing as, as explained in this post (within its first two Rev 10:1a sections), -disculpating “(spurious)-righteousness” cloaks. So SDA’s are really, conversely, and most detrimentally, “Adventists in name only”...
            ...Indeed the actual fact of the matter here is that, as Christ’s parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37|COL 376-389) depictingly crystalized, SDAs are the prophetic, “Laodicean” counterpart of the “heartlessly (lovelessly =1 John 3:17-18) and Spiritually (John 3:3ff; 2 Cor 3:7-18), “letter-ally” unconverted” (Rom 2:2:28-29; 1 Cor 2:6-16) First Century Jews who taught that they must not, even in not allowing God Himself, go out of their way to help all people in all mandated need (i.e., Spiritually, Humanitarianly and Vitally), and thus were resolute to murderously oppose (e.g. John 8:39-47ff) Gospel of the Kingdom of God in order to preserve their idolicized “nation” “for God” (e.g. John 11:45-53) through being faithful to their subjective, whimsical perverting and legalistic keeping of the Law of Moses, especially the Sabbath (e.g. John 7:17-24; cf. Matt 12:7; contra. Matt 5:17-20). Likewise the “lying-fake Jews” SDAs (Rev 3:9) are resolute to murderously-adjacent (and also directly) oppose Christ’s Gospel of the Kingdom to similarly preserve their idolicized “church” “for God” through their self-serving, and indifferently blind, legalistic keeping of their mal-understood “(supposed time-constrained) “Law” of the Second Coming (in their (recursively waning) lifetime)”, especially as per the prophetic “Plan B” scenario given to EGW as opposed to the fuller “Plan A” revelation in the Bible. And the further Truth indeed is that, on top of Jesus Christ Himself (Matt 25:31-46), their lip-servicely revered “Great Prophet(s)” all, variously, pointedly and clearly, and keyly veiledly (=Isa 6:8-13|Matt 13:10-17), spoken against them for their unrighteous actions & (over Christ) institutional/“temple” covetousness/selfishness-angled idolatry (=John 2:14-22; Matt 12:6).... (I.e., e.g., Deut 15:1-11; EW 36.2; LDE 59-61; 15MR 292.2-3; etc.)
            So indeed merely having an “Adventist” name is not be of any value/benefit, if, as Chan goes on to say based on Christ’s post Matt 24 teaching in Matt 25: ‘people are not waiting by obeying the things He has called us to do’...thus if their character does not actually “fully” harmonize with, and most naturally/intuitively reflect Christ’s (COL 69.1-2) [-And it is most telling that in evangelistic sermons SDA will preach on Matt 24, as e.g. here, then here, but not on what Jesus Himself had said will actually determine the saved vs. the unsaved in through three teachings in Matt 25...Obviously that is because that is not a “Fundamental Belief” of their Church... (See this depicting post)]



August 11, 2014                    
‘Job Episode’ Indeed = ‘Great Controversy Theme’
            I believe the technical/theological term that Francis Chan is needing to succinctly encapsulate what he has here [01:35-14:58ff] ‘more strikingly observed in Job’ is the “Great Controversy Theme” which encapsulates the indeed wider, cosmic fact that God “Permitted Sin” for a “representative” period of up to 7000 years in order to likewise objectively/candidly satisfactorily demonstrate that it is not a viable alternative way of living. (See PP 33-43; DA 758-764 (see its exposition here); cf. this related post) This so titled understanding is of course copiously cited in the writings of EGW through the “Testimony from Jesus/Spirit of Prophecy” revelations (cf. Rev 12:17; 19:10) stemming from this vision (2SG 265.1-270.2), and is actually short for: “The Great Controversy Between Christ and His Angels, and Satan and His Angels” (=Rev 12:4, 7-9ff (see here); 1SG (1858)). And such Prophetic revelations (cf. Luke 10:18|DA 490.1-4), which are similar to the one which Moses, -the author of Job, clearly received to see “behind the scenes” on that Job episode -(a behind the scene clarification that Job himself actually never was given at all by God), is shown in episodes such as (e.g.):

-The Beginnings of Satan’s Jealousy and Hatred of God the Son (PP 36.1-2ff) (cf. here & here)
-Christ Intensely Deliberating with the Father to redeem Fallen Man (EW 149-153) (discussed here & here)
-Christ’s Immediate Post-Resurrection Ascension (3SP 202.1-203.1; 252.1-253.2) (discussed here)
-Christ Setting Out to ‘make up His Kingdom’ (Dan 7:9-14; cf. EW 54-56) (discussed above); -[a most pivotal/climatic session during this GC which can be understood as the: “...parallel...holy conference held somewhere discussing all mankind”♪ lyricized by Micheal W. Smith!]
-Satan’s Special Plannings to ‘deceive even the very elect (also beyond SDAs)’ (EW 266-269) (cf. here)
-among many others

            Telling that SDAs typically have come to this “Great Controversy” motif through the visioning “shortcut” provided through the Spirit of Prophecy...and (typically) then do they discover that the episode of Job does fully validates the similar behind the scene episodes that EGW was shown. And that is the typical “shortcutting” way in which God does make use of His SOP gifting. He simply shows/reveals such things, and then, as sampled in this post, the ‘validating, corroborating and/or substantiating “proof” can indeed be found in the Bible’ (cf. 2 Thess 5:19-22).
            -By the way, the ‘bugs race’ illustration which Francis Chan alludes to here [10:28-13:51] to try to illustrate this ‘GC perspective/reality’ is this one [22:19-25:04ff] from a 2004 sermon of his.


August 25, 2014                    
‘You Ain’t ‘Gleaned’ Nothing Yet’ (1 Tim 3:10-11, 12, 13-17)
...Let David Platt (see here [04:37ff]; -and, by the way, blessings for his recent International MissionBoard president commissioning, -a perfect (Luke 16:10a) & fitting/deserved (Luke 19:17ff) ministry opportunity for him!), Francis Chan, and others set out to fully preach and work to implement their message that, e.g., ‘God will “spew out” the ‘(Laodicean) “Cult” within Evangelical Christianity’ who are Lukewarm and Loving It (cf. here [01:13:26-01:18:16]), overturning, as it were, the established “tables” in the Christian Church that are making it to worshipfully be artificially, and self-limitingly, being run according to Capitalistic dogmas, -indeed calling the “hindering sin” (Heb 12:1-4ff) here by its name: the Western/Protestant-created and enshrined darling of Capitalism, and then will ‘Western opposition, marginalization and even, at least “let die”, persecutions become manifest!! (Indeed in e.g. just working to get the IMB’s +16 million|46,125 congregations|$8+ billion revenue denominational parent Southern Baptist Convention to send out, and support, much more than, relatively, merely, ca. 4800 “field personnel”/missionaries (=0.03% of membership), mainly by merely also increasing the base memberships’ tithing&offering givings to much more than current ca. 2% of income!! (Cf. here)). Fully preaching the Cross involves what sealingly came to put Christ on the Cross when His far-reaching Gospel message went beyond merely a purely Theological imperative (John 8:24-27; 10:22-42) to a Theologically-Authorized message which reached into their cherished money-making Temple Practices (Matt 21:12-13|DA 593.1-3ff) and came to put their, ironically enough, faithlessly subservient standing to/in the Roman Empire “at risk” (John 11:45-53)..for they just did not have, nor want to have, any faith in Him or His Gospel no matter what, even great, miraculous good works He clearly could, and would do. (John 15:22-25, 18-19ff)....as if the Messiah would come and deliver them from the mighty hand of Rome without the assisting power of God, and thus, merely/except by genius superior political/military strategy and might, (as later false messiahs, e.g. in ca. 125 A.D. with Simon bar Kokhba, seem to have). As Jesus said the real issue here was in their deficient standard and character of Righteousness = Right-Doing (Matt 5:20; COL 293.3-294.2).
            The same elements which are found in the Theological Aspect of Christ’s Gospel for Redemption are also found in its enjoined Practical Ones. Just like (=John 17:18) Jesus most resolutely, and all in sheer faith in the ‘not yet evident’ (Matt 26:36-46; EW 149-153) put on the line what He had, and would be re-given upon His incarnation as a Man (i.e., in my view, a Sinless [Spiritual] Nature like Adam (See pp. 265-267 in here (from 1999); Cf. here [01:18:53-01:19:22ff])), and would dedicatedly work right through the end to beneficially maintain and see through (John 17:19), namely Sinless Life and Perfect Righteousness, in order to freely bestow it upon any believing sinner, He now asks us to do a similarly self-sacrifice in putting into play all the talents that we have been given by Him to, not only telling others about the Gospel, but, indeed through these multipliable gifts, doing the life-saving and life-bettering good works which, at the very least, will help put, and keep, as many people as possible into a living or interested position to hear of His Gospel message and have their fair and full chance to be saved.
            Let David Platt, Francis Chan and other “awakeningly” (Rev 3:2ff; 16:15), “going-on-hotly” aware ones set out to actually tangibly, most efficiently organize themselves to do, in evidenced full Faith in Christ’s ‘Will, Promise and Power against all and any odds’ (Matt 28:18-20; cf. Rev 2:26-29 (=Rev 19:11-16|Psa 2)), what it incontrovertibly will necessarily take to properly and fully effectuate Christ’s Gospel Mandate, both in terms of having the full/accurate Biblical Truth and “rightly doing” Christ’s Good Works, and then indeed will the, even religio-political opposition come, -as it “naturally” increasingly did for the Apostolic Church, as the various gods of this World naturally take the hits which they had been endeavoring to, (through e.g. abortions, social and economic indifference and selfishness, principally self-serving charitable giving*, etc), disculpate themselves of....for these “full” faith-based Right-Doing actions (cf. Rev 14:12) and Unrighteous reactions (cf. Rev 14:13) are what “truly/in verity” (LDE 199.4. “Righteousness (=Right-Doing)” is synonymous with “Justification” (Jam 2:22-24 = Matt 25:34-40) -See comments in here within Rev 20:12 sections) constitute what has been prophesied under the Third Angel’s Message, which, top put it succinctly here, exposes this key enmity against Christ’s Sabbatical (e.g. Matt 12:7-8, 9-14, 15-18ff|Luke 13:14-17) rest-providing/restoring (Matt 11:28-30) purposes (Rev 14:9ff)...
            ....And also, as already stated earlier, the actual reason why there currently is opposition, even violently so, to Christianity in certain parts/regions of the world, is because America has been “Babylonianly” been “preaching” that whatever it does, i.e., sinfully, oppressingly, militaristically murderously, etc, is according to supposed Biblical/God-given Freedom, when it actually only is the perverted “Freedom of Sin” which Satan has always wanted to rule this Earth, even God’s entire Universe by, and at God’s Fully Supporting “Blessing”. Seriously, Muslim nations/countries are not corrupt, perverse criminal, murderous nor sinful as are supposed “Christian” nations/countries, so why should they accept their perverse socio-economics, and also Godless “democracy” which, and indeed live-snuffingly, promote that “Satanic” Humanistic lifestyle. At “worst” Muslim are guilty of still living purely according to an Old Testament Covenant, one which requires a death penalty for certain capital sins...but people in Western Nations who typically claim themselves to be ca. +70-80% Christian, are certainly not modeling the New Covenant gracing by Jesus Christ when they actually not only do not act to check sinfulness, but actually greatly facilitate...Their only objective in life is to make money, and that unscrupulously at any cost. (contra. Gal 5:13; cf. here).
            So begin to, even more self-sacrificingly “anguish” over realizing also these deeper realities and Biblically mandated imperatives (Heb 12:3-4) and, at the very least, the inherent, natural ‘persecution for this fullest extent of living righteously’ will surely be felt. In other words, like Jesus Christ, resolutely decide to, you yourselves endeavor to, counter-Capitalistic-culture, do all that can/should be done to save the life of “even the least of these”, e.g. infants being aborted, and a bloody and shameful Cross will then also be designated and erected for you...even by many of the same “tickled” people who know cry out: “Hosanna”. (Mark 8:34-38; Luke 23:18|John 19:15; Heb 12:2ff). The world in need of what Jesus can actually (cf. John 6:26-27, 48ff), and fully, provides are the ones who will truly love the emulating followers of Christ...those who prefer what unrighteousness can bring will be in that “haters” camp. It is the message of Christianity truly lived out in the life, -with its unsheathed consequences which makes the unrighteous world, to any assuaging degree: “see red”. (Matt 10:34-36ff; Rev 6:3-4)

* Such as the recent wave of, indeed “(wastefully) offensive”, mainly fame-whoring, ALS Ice Bucket Challenging, (e.g. here) -which, ironically “sober-mindedly” (cf. Rev 17:2, 18:3, 23b) enough, to my knowledge only Charlie Sheen (straightly) got right, (for, moreover, if I understood it correctly: when people actually doused themselves with Ice water it was so that they, (at least initially), would only have to donate $10 instead of $100 if they did not)....
            ....Which seriously, actually all relatedly reminds me of what is presently transpiring in regards to Francis Chan, and his many speaking engagements, do people really need to have Francis Chan come in person to their Church/Conference, to hear him preach the, essentially, identical sermon/message, -tangibly reenacted illustrations and/or retold stories, and all, to them, -(and this is not at all any faulting to Chan himself, as there are just so many ways that such a pivotal/foundational message can be presented (cf. Luke 16:27-31))....Really....e.g. Youtube, even the Internet does not exist!??....(In a non-remunerating extent, I’ve seen this facadely assuaging charade before in regards to (the Francis Chan-comparable), David Gates & his "Lazarus Experience").....And if people are really “that busy” to warrant such special, live presentings, then surely they’ll love the ‘at-your-most-convenient time’, moreover fully-controllably so, possibilities of internet posted and archived sermons!!...Or is this not clearly these, -frankly statistically, objectively deemable “Ezek 33:30-32” congregations’/conferences’ Capitalistic “play-to-get-paid” inherent imposition upon Francis Chan if they are ever going to, income-wise, be contributing (further) to him and his family as he now (primarily) does his missional Church Planting (website).


August 30, 2014
‘Come out of “Babylon [II]”’ (Rev 18:4)
            As highlighted by Francis Chan here [00:56-02:55ff; 34:39; cf. here 02:46], Tony Campolo*, (-his practising [13:57-15:56] of the Catholic’s unbiblical ritual/“discipline” of Spiritual Formation overlooked here. -And there actually is not a ‘quietness and stillness entrance’ verse which follows Isa 40:31!...In fact, no verse at all!!...unless he was/is reading from a Catechism....  [Do see Campolo’s 2012 Loma Linda Univ. Graduation ‘Loving Sacrificing’ sermon]), has an interesting view&application of Revelation’s Babylon (see e.g. in here [22:57-30:30ff]), which he rightly cites in the context of the joint “evangelistic & social/economic justice” [05:51-06:04] ‘Kingdom Gospel & Mandate’ of Christ|God [25:07-26:15-28:49], -moreover manifestly fully, i.e., non-“half-pregnantly”, non-Dispensational in the greater Biblical context that the Church has been given this mandate by God as His “New Israel” [28:49-30:29]. So I have really no problem with Campolo’s ultimate, but relative, conclusion which is that ‘the United States of America is that Babylon’ (-which substantively dovetails with the prior (2001+) understanding of Chan here [06:49-08:45ff])....but like a Math teacher having serious questions and concern about a student who has turned in an exam with all of the right answers to its problems, but either showed no work at all for those answers, or at best provided incomplete or tangentially incorrect “work” as proof, I do have a problem with the lack and/or deficient “hermeneutics” manifested by Campolo in making this claim and application. Frankly it seemed to me to be at best “reverse interpreting” (an eisegetical ‘circular reading current events and actualities and news headlines as prophetic interpretations’ practice which is infamously quite popular with the JackVan Impe-type of prophetic expositors. {Cf. e.g. here|here.}) And from the sample exposition that Campolo provides, e.g. that ‘the listing of materials in Rev 18:11ff is proof that Babylon is a consumeristic society, as is the U.S.’ it manifestly seems to be that, at best, even the many scholars which he says either share, or would not disagree with his view [23:10-24:26] also have used more of an, at best (subjectively) anecdotal, rather than exegetical hermeneutical approach. It Biblically seems more to me that God does not actually have a problem with a nation/people being rich and having/using the very best of materials that can be found in the Earth (see e.g. Isa 54:11-12; 60:5-13); but He has a problem when the nation which procures such wealth both does this through a fundamentally unrighteous, unjust, oppressive and violent/murderous  system (which incontrovertibly is the “live and let die” economic system of Capitalism) and/or has such an abundance of wealth while others are variously needlessly suffering and dying from a lack of such resources (=Ezek 16:47-50; 1 John 3:16-17). God instead expects that His “Abrahamicly Blessed” Israel (Gen 12:2) will use these blessing to only be a generous Spiritual and temporal blessing to the rest of, the ends of, the world. (=Isa 61:1-6ff)
            Now compound that “abomination” in the eyes of God with a nation as the U.S., (as similar with most other Western/First World countries), which, by a democratic supermajority of ca. 70-80%, touts itself to be a Christian Nation and/or ‘God’s Blessed and Blessing’, and you hermeneutically have what Revelation has symbolized as “Babylon”: namely a people who claim to be God’s people, even His Church/“Israel”, but are not living according to His Full Righteousness Gospel & thus neither His Full Spiritual Law. (cf. Matt 5:17-20). Therefore, succinctly stated here, -as this topic of “Revelation’s Babylon” has been fully exposed in this post, the “signified” (=symbolized) prophecies of the Bible/Revelation (Rev 1:1; cf. e.g. Dan 8:20-22ff) are to at first be exhaustively hermeneutically decoded before any (assumed or perceived) headlines/current events/anecdotal applications can be rightly drawn and applied. This Biblically/Spiritually scientific approach will also reveal that the Reformers were right on when the deciphered the Spiritual “Babylon” of their day. It (Historically) applicably was the entity which had directly and almost seamlessly taken over for the prior (purely paganistic) “Babylon” (i.e. Rome 1 Pet 5:13), -which Satan had first used to Persecute the then entirely righteous Church of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, forming the Holy Roman Empire which went on to engage in a bloody persecutive reign against the Biblical, Protestant, Truth messengers and witnesses of God. (Cf. e.g. here from Dave Hunt). Protestantism eventually won that confrontation through the various support and guidance of God, and (Eschatologically) by now, though highly fractioned (i.e. 30,000+ denominations), has collective become more influential then its “mother”, and even also as populous, but it has used that influence, popularity and power to subtlely, “harlotrously” advance a bankrupt, contra-Gospel/Bible, geo-socio-economic agenda, as many Christians today, such as the ones cited in the present post, including Campolo, are now clearly seeing and decrying. And here is the present state of Babylon.
            Now, further troublingly, what I, moreover seemingly excisingly did not hear from Campolo’s exposition, is the proclaiming of the solution which God has given to His People who are caught up in that, actually doomed, socio-economic Babylon. God has not said to ‘cope with it’, nor ‘adjust to/within it’, nor, effectively, ‘seek to “make bricks without straw”’, which really sums up the ways in which most Christians today, including SDAs counsel to deal with that ruthless Capitalistic System, which actually is artificially limiting even the ones who want to “radically” do something against this tide of snarefully subtle “selfishness and covetous” Evil. God instead “Loudly” calls His People to “Come out of her”....and that is all, not actually because it is going to self-collapse, but because a most offended and wrathful God is going to directly enter into “strong” overturning and dooming “plaguing” judgements against her “Himself” (Rev 18:6-8, 21ff)...and He has indeed already given ample “First Woe” demonstration in the prophesied 9/11 Attacks of what He can “woefully” do towards that end. As Campolo (rightly)  triumphantly, emphatically concludes from the straight reading of the Bible [01:15:56ff; (cf. 01:00:37-01:02:08)]:

‘God, through True and Righteous Judgements, has forever and ever judged that Great Harlot who (indeed) was corrupting the Earth with her immorality and has also avenged the blood of His Bond-Servants (i.e., these “radical” ones who rightly have been longing for, and endeavor to see the (actual) Truth/Gospel and Kingdom of God reign Supreme in the Earth)!!’ (Rev 19:2-3)

            So, just like God had not called the ensuing, and thus relatively innocent, generation(s) His Babylonianly-Punished OT Israel to “Come out of Babylon” (Jer 50:8ff; 51:6, 9, 45; cf. Isa 52:11 -indeed because he is now going to destroy it), and wander aimlessly in the wilderness...but to instead to return to their homeland of Judah and there rebuild and advance His Israel/Sanctuary Religion and Jerusalem Society. (Rev 18:1ff; cf. Ezek 43-48; Rev 19:7-8) And that Call is certainly in full effectuation today, in direct correspondence to a great part of world increasingly in (just humanitarian) need which the selfish and unrighteous world, even in spurious/Lukewarn Christian circles, has clearly demonstrated that it, actually will not, work to remedy, and it is only God’s, Latter Rain ordained, as in Apostolic times, Biblical organization and planning for this task, which is internally freed from all Capitalistic impositions (e.g., Acts 2:43-45; 4:32-35; 2 Cor 7:7-15; Lev 25; Deut 15:1-11; 23:19-20) will, “lovingly collectively” [01:11:06-01:13:13ff] ever get that Global Mission done.

            The most evident, summative fact is that the All-Wise, Right-Doing, God will, either through permitted “pain vs. pleasure”, and/or principlely “right-doing”, experiential means (=non-SDAs/“11 Tribes”), and/or through Divinely-informed/counseled/legislated guidance, and deferentially trusting/submitting obedience (=SDAs/Judah), God will foil Satan’s “Enduring Babylon” (=Dan 3) plans for His Captive Israel, and successfully get His (duly Sealed and Shaking-surviving) Sincere and Faithful People clear out of it!! (=Rev 7:4-8ff)


October 3, 2014
God Is Really “Real”!! (Isa 1:18-20)
            I get it....As Francis Chan patently exhorts (e.g. here[52:01-52:18ff]), saved people will surely not be ‘brushing past a dozen pair of angels wings on their way to get in God’s face’...Indeed that is probably not be the “first” thing that they will be doing, because like Job, they will be ‘shocked’ in “seeing” God even more clearly (Job 42:5-6), but it is for that very theological knowledge/reason that God is “Almighty”, meaning, as Job states, that ‘He can do all things, and that no purpose of His can be thwarted’ (Job 42:2, cf. Isa 46:10b-11; Num 14:21), that someone, like the (chronologically) faith-pioneer Job, who sincerely and deeply trusted God for/about something, but still ended up not seeing/receiving what they trusted Him for, may indeed have such candidly pointed questions for God...when they’ll get to “see” Him...
            ...But I do get....”That’s, “realistically/sincerely/truthfully”, most likely won’t be the “first” thing one would do....but it might be the second, or third!!!! In other words, the sheer awesomeness of God in all of His glory, with “naturally/realistically” just terrace any created being, particularly if this is the very first (physical) encounter with the Divine (as variously seen in the Bible with ‘people (helplessly) falling to the ground as dead men’ (Rev 1:17; cf. Exod 33:20) ...But the reason indeed is because, if one is “real”, then that (especially first) physical encounter with God is sure to (psychologically) overwhelm them. But do an even cursory overviewing survey of all of the ‘prayers/praying’ in the Bible, -which technically goes beyond just (positionally/contextually) formal sessions, to include anything that anyone says to/towards God, and literalistically, out of e.g., over 100 instances, you’ll probably only find less than a handful where the one praying, right up to the most faithful and righteous of them, does not actually begin, or proceed, by speaking as in Isa 6:3a or Rev 4:8b. E.g. you don’t see Elijah doing this on/for his pivotal Mount Carmel Showdown prayer (1 Kgs 18:36-37). Instead Elijah just straightly set forth his position in assertive statements which basically say: ‘You’re Israel’s God’ “I am your sent servant’ ‘and I have faithfully done all these things according to your commission’. And yet, just to candidly demonstrate that Elijah did not actually think that this was all a done deal, but was still acting out of sheer faith, he actually twice “asks” (thus begs/pleads) God to answer him.[12]
            All this to say that I rather see for the comprehensive testimony in the Bible about “prayer”, i.e. interaction with God, that God actually wants and thus accepts “real conversation”, whether it is on one end, the genuine expression and reaction of being overwhelmed, even terrified, by the awesomeness of God (Isa 6:3, 5; Rev 4:8), or on the other hand, the also genuine, sincere questioning of God (such as e.g.: ‘What’s up with you??!!’ (Jer 18:7-10ff); ‘Where are you already?!!’ (Psa 94:1-3ff = Deut 32:35-36); or, from Jesus Himself “Why have YOU forsaken ME”!!??? (Matt 27:46; i.e. compared with John 8:28-29; 12:27-28ff). Perfect case in point: Job actually spent most of his speaking time (as recorded in his book) just almost unrestrainedly, pointedly questioning God (i.e., Job 3:1ff; 10:1ff; 24:1ff etc), and at the end God quite scathingly (finally) responds to him in a: “you-(of all people)-should-have-known-to-do-better” tone (Job 38-41; cf. Num 20:12; 27:14; Deut 3:26); God then does not go on to commend and praise Job’s three friends for instead having had a cautious and ambivalent, indeed just indifferent stance and position throughout this ordeal, but actually, as Job 42:7-9 shockingly states, is ‘wrathfully fuming to manifestly execute them’!!!...were it but for Job’s interceding...This all confirms to me that God actually loathes fence-sitters and indifferently ambivalent, indeed “lukewarm” people who pointedly choose to not speak, or live up to all that they actually know to be the truth. That was indeed the “cautious stance” of Job’s friends, although they probably knew that Job was a righteous and blameless person, and at the very least had not done anything which would warrant such a reaction from God Himself. So they were actually the ones who were slandering God by indifferently ascribing such unfair things to Him, while Job was instead speaking and acting according to his knowledge that this all just was not like God...and so, since He indeed was “All-Powerful”, then “why” was all this going on?!!
            As stated above, the “Great Controversy” theme in the Bible, as manifested in the Episode of Job, does indeed provide compelling answers to these “Theodicy” issues...And I would not at all be shock that God winks more at the, even curse-full, diatribe of atheists, skeptics and agnostics (cf. 1 Tim 1:13; Acts 17:30), than at the almost stoically indifferent, religiously formalistic “worship” of “cautious” Christians who, unlike Job, by now actually, or at least should, know and understand more about the issue here, and be endeavoring to do their tangible part in helping to vindicate God and His Character in this Great Controversy. So a professed Christian coldly responding to the patent charge of “How can an all-powerful God allow all this suffering, even of innocents?” by saying ‘because He does whatever He “pleases”’, when God does not even take delight in the death of the most vile and wicked person (Ezek 18:23; 33:11; Jon 4:9-11) indeed not anyone (Exod 18:32), is quite understandibly, most vexing and infuriating to Him....As also are those believers who know that they should be doing something tangible in this GC to become and/or lawfully authorize/warrant the beneficence of God towards this hurting world, but instead opt to not be God’s “hands or feet” in order to pursue their selfish ambitions.
            So, in summary, I am rather seeing that God wants and accepts any candidly “real”, thus truthful, prayer (=conversation) from people, whether it is “really awed” or “really peeved or mythed”. Someone genuinely wanting to confront and contend with God, even ‘at the first chance they’ll get’ is actually quite Biblical. (Job 23:1-7)...Again that “naturally/realistically/truthfully” may not come to be the initial actual case when that occasion presents itself, but God will then not be expecting that people with such sincere lingering questions then just “suck it up and keep bowing” and thus spend the rest of Eternity without ever having this, even if still valid, contending “tête-à-Tête” with Him.In fact, that is all what God’s Three-Part Judgement process, as discussed before in the present post, is all about. His (Pre-Advent) Investigative (=krino) (Dan 7:9-10ff); Millennial (actually) Trialing (=krisis) (Rev 20:4) and Post-Millennial Condemning (=krima) (Rev 20:11-14; =Matt 25:31-46) all are for the transparent revealing (cf. Rev 15:4) and, as I Biblically/Theologically see it, even pleadingly Second-Guessingly reversing (cf. Exod 32:11-14; Num 14:11-20), to the point indeed when, as fully discussed in here at Rev 20:11-15 decisions for or against salvation will actually still be made at that post-Millennial “White Throne” Judgement!!
            So when God invites, even the most sinful/unworthy of persons, to ‘come and contend with Him’ i.e., to alter His decision about them (Isa 1:18), though the end result will surely be that you’ll recognize that fully conforming to His Wisely Perfect Will and Ways is/was/would be/would have been the optimal best (Isa 1:19-20), at the very least, by then, that serious person will know and understand exactly why, whereas the carelessly indifferent will have preferred to assuagingly find-unwarranted-fault with God....And that is why God hates this neutral stance because it inherently just prefers to slanderously blame Him.
            So I’ll say in ending: “get and be real with God”...to the point where you’ll also take Him up on His pronouncements that He is Good and Love, and that whatever He does or allows is out of a (fundamentally) truthful/concrete/tangible warranting/necessary reason|purpose, and thus will also be non-indifferently trying to get to know Him and His will and ways better..by “contentions” if genuinely the case!! A relationship out of mere “fear” with God is not at all His ultimate ideal, but rather one out of mutually understanding knowledge and love...and that may take genuinely candid discussion....And even yet then, perhaps God may choose to “chill” and engage your contention at your own genuinely mythed level (as expected by Job (Job 23:6))...or perhaps God just will not (as actually contraringly manifested to Job (Job 38:1-3ff; 40:1-2, 6-14ff; (cf. Job 42:1-6); cf. Hab 1:12-17; 2:1 vs. Hab 2:2), manifestly because Job, despite everything else, should have known, to have known, much better (e.g. better than the Job 24, probably utterly depressed, (pivotal) slip up. Cf. the threatening, but silent, “treatment” manifested to Moses Exod 4:24-26|PP 255.5; the rather forceful remonstrance effectuated as an object lesson for the fled Elijah (1 Kgs 19:9-12ff|)). Job, -(who it must be stressed, was actually himself never informed as to what his great ordeal had cosmicly been all about), was being thus established by as the first example of the type of faith which God will be expecting from His followers, especially in the light of the involved wider Cosmic Demonstration and the tangible contribution they are, by their great faithfulness, making towards that Great Controversy candid, and thus most objectively truthful, resolution (Rev 12:11).
            Relatedly, many homelitic rationalization and explanations have been put forth to try to explain why Jesus in Matt 11:2-6, 7-15 did not answer the inquiry of the imprisoned John the Baptist, by also encouraging telling the disciples which John had sent that ‘John was the greatest of all prophets’. But within a theology which Biblically understands: (1) that the future is not known, but rather only Divinely planned and, (2) that the incarnated Jesus was completely dependent on the informing Spirit of Prophecy to know of the injunctive will & (injunctive) future plans of God the Father, that Jesus was probably actually drawing a complete informational blank when it came to what God the Father was actually planning to do about the case&fate of John the Baptist. Moreover as Jesus also was evidently not being given an injunctive|alternative directive (~Matt 26:39-44) to go and miraculously deliver John. (cf. DA 224.2a) And so, so as to not fill John the Baptist with false hope which actually may only serve to cause him to go into a blasphemous “curse God and die” fit as he realized that he was going to be executed, Jesus did not relate that added/further/confirming “greatest of all prophets” “information”. Jesus manifestly saw that it was best that John the Baptist only operate in faith within the knowledge and information that he already had, hence his recollective response (Matt 11:4-6). In fact, a fully expounded here, this was ‘a preferredly “(prophetically) uninformed” situation’ which Jesus Himself would experience on the Cross. (John 8:28-30; Matt 27:46-47).
            And that is the crux of the issue here, and manifestly the ultimate reason for God’s evident silence about the planned fate of John: Jesus indeed did not know what would be the ultimate fate of John, and so, when it was that execution death, that is actually why He actually took that news pretty bad and immediately retreated to a secluded place (Matt 14:13a), manifestly also to secure Himself for a while in the case that Herod then also came after Him (cf. Luke 13:31-33), (before “the/His time (cf. John 7:1, 6-8, 10)). With that capital death fate of John, Jesus, who, from the start of His ministry right up around that point, had actually been expecting that His preaching and healing ministry would (naturally) have brought the Jewish people to repentance, indeed to the point where God would then be able to seamlessly usher in the Messianic Kingdom with/through them (=Mar 1:14-15), probably here, for the very first time, fully contemplated the fact that He Himself might just suffer such a ignominious fate at the hands of false Jews and heathens (=Matt 17:11-13), albeit not without the hope of a resurrecting Triumph (Matt 17:9). But manifestly back at the time of Matt 14:13, Jesus had not been given this new, injunctive, and even just better understood (i.e. for Psa 110 -see exposition within here), prophetic information, as it was later done on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt 17:1-8, 9ff), and so His candid and immediate reaction was to find a securing, secluded retreat (Matt 14:13a), to at least rethink things. And manifestly when He had thought things over, and saw that His ministry was right and would, either way, not be in vain, or even perhaps despite not having yet fully understood why God had allowed this to happen, He nonetheless allowed Himself to “have compassion on the sick and needy that, in great faith, chased after Him (Matt 14:13b, and did the “right” thing, and proceeded to meet their vital&critical needs (Matt 14:14-21).
            So through such examples from God’s most highly favored followers and/or commissioned messengers like Job, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and also Jesus, God was working to establish the object lesson for the type of faith that He would be needing from all His followers in order to be able to, as much as possible, contribute to the trumping evidence against Satan and his GC accusations, (Rev 12:11;  DA 224.2b)... a greatest/martyrdom demonstration of faith which, like Jesus, (and probably also John (at Matt 27:52-53)), would not go without being specially rewarded by God. (=Heb 11:5-6; Jer 29:13).

Actual ‘Eating to God’s Glory’ (1 Cor 10:31)
            As done here[21:53-24:32], Francis Chan has tried to substantiate what is meant by “eating to the glory of God’. Well the exegetical context (versus a ‘literalizing deeming’) of that verse (1 Cor 10:23-33) actually pinpoints what is actually intended there, and, by our day, in two applicable ways. First of all, there was the issue of “meats sacrificed to idols”. Paul’s instruction then was to do whatever would not be offensive to Greeks (who saw nothing wrong with this) or Jews (who were appalled by this idolatrous practice). (1 Cor 10:32) Whatever would bring the “most profit to many” and not to one own. (1 Cor 10:24, 33). For though it is unaffectedly “lawful” to eat, or not to eat, such meats, it indeed may not always be “profitable” given the influenced context (1 Cor 10:23)
            Now apply the principle of ‘being of best influence and benefit to others vs. one own’ to our context today, and where meats are no longer being sacrificed to (at least the same) idols by unbelievers. There is the whole issue of various foods and beverages, even beyond alcoholic ones, prepared/processed/confected which are objectively/scientifically, just not good for one’s health. They, while personally most pleasurable, even “comforting”, just contribute to sickness and disease as seen with cancer (e.g. smoking, red meats), diabetes (e.g sugary foods and beverages), cirrhosis (alcohol), functional chemical imbalance (e.g. from caffeine), etc. Well that all results in premature deaths and usually upon a ending lifespan of sickness and suffering. Well since “God’s glory” is manifested from the tangible outshining of His Character/Makeup Attributes, and some of those attributes are benevolence/goodness and living eternal, then, ‘eating/drinking’ to God’s glory then would be making the choice of partaking of foods which are for optimal health, and not those which incrementally just take away from your life. And all of this would be for the “profit” of others, -tangibly in being in a position to be of various aid/help to them instead of having to be care for, and influentially, by a long and healthy life, inherently testifying of a God who values live and health. And given how poor health and also meat eating in particular have a substantive economical impact, indeed with the feed bred, grown and fed to animals being raised for consumption being enough to resolve the issue of world hunger, making that healthy self-sacrifice, including of ‘one’s own pleasure(s)’ [cf. Chan at 27:58-28:19], would “testifyingly” also be to God’s glory while being a tangibly good/profit for ‘many others’. (Cf. Isa 58:5-7ff, 13-14). The, earlier also mentioned, salient, famous, case in point (National Geographics Nov. 2005) example cited here[17:03-18:30] (cf. this PBS documentary) of (Loma Linda) SDAs who, mainly based on the healthy lifestyle and (vegan-vegetarian) diet principles in the Bible and SOP, are the third longest, and uniquely, non-genetics derived, group of people in the world {cf. here[45:44-46:32]}, is a demonstration of what “eating/drinking” to God’s glory is about. Especially since, ultimately God can have healingly overruling (Psa 103:3; Mark 2:9-11) or even accursingly infecting power over diseases. (Exod 15:26; 23:25-26; John 5:14|CT 466.4)

            So, as Francis Chan joking, but unwittingly, seriously involves, it certainly would involve more than eating a ‘non-nutritive cookie’[24:01], but, (and as David Platt has also expressed), in regards to healthy consumptions. And since ‘not glorifying’ God here, is synonymous to “falling short of His glory”, then, moreover knowing to do what is right in this area, and (selfishly/self-concernedly) not doing it, is thus “sin” (Rom 3:23; Jam 4:17). (It (indeed cf. [28:20-28:45]) similarly is most fittingly representative that Adam and Eve knowingly eating of a fruit which they knew would result in God condemning them to death, instead of just partaking of profitable fruits, and all out of selfish and (supposed) self-profiting reasons (Gen 2:16; 3:4-6), was a most tangible demonstration of doing something sinful.)


October 6, 2014
“Believe” the Wholed Truth (Matt 4:5-7)
            Contrary to what Francis Chan espouses here[01:59-03:00], Ecclesiastes, “proof-textingly” does not mean in Eccl 7:1 that when (any) a person dies they immediately go the Heaven before God’, because the Preacher in Ecclesiastes, -in agreement with the rest of (‘properly interpreted, handled and used’) = 2 Tim 2:15) Scripture (2 Tim 3:16), also said that: “...For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything...” (Eccl 9:4-6)...So the dead surely cannot ‘immediately know what it is like to be in the presence of God’ [or, for the wicked, about any notion of Hell] (John 6:54; 1 Cor 15:22-23)...And in regards to subsequent claims made here[21:37f] about the qualifying statement in relation to Hell in Matt 25:46, the short (exegetical) answer which has the added validation of hermeneutically aligning itself with what the “wholed” doctrinal and prophetic testimony of Scripture about Hell is, is that: this statement is speaking of an “eternal punishment” (Greek: (stative) noun; cf 1 John 4:18) and not to an “eternal punishing” (Greek: (action) verb). So this is not speaking of an ‘act of punishing’ which will be carried out for eternity, but rather to the results of this punishment which will have everlasting/irreversible results.

            As inherently implicated with Jesus in the ‘Wilderness of Testing’ (Matt 4:1ff|Luke 4:1ff), there are green-lighted wider cosmic/ “Great Controversy” consequences for treating the Bible and its “Whole Truth” like a cafeteria buffet and picking and choosing what one wants to (isolatingly) “claim/believe” from it. (e.g. 2 Thess 2:7-12; Rev 16:13-16; 3:1-6; cf. 2 Tim 3:16-17)!!


December 29, 2014
God Will Indeed ‘Not|Never Forget’ (Matt 18:5-7, 10 = Rev 18:21ff)
            Most interesting that, as related by Francis Chan here[03:04-5:22-07:29-08:54ff], that God would candidly respond to the confessing exclamation by Francis Chan of ‘having totally forgotten all about the (welfare/fate) of the critically hungered girl he had priorly encountered in a trip to Ethiopia (See (e.g.) (on 02-14-14) here[57:44-01:00:13] & (on 11-23-14) here[40:54-43:03ff]), by saying: “Well I did not”. I have stressed the perceptively assuming, pivotally qualifying, “Well” statement because, being by now well accustom to have God, in order to candidly deal with all according to the attained level our genuine faith, yet still not wanting us to remain at any deficient level (=Rev 3:1-6), will indeed express things which can be double-, or even multiplely- entendre, where one person from their experience may get something from that statement, while another, with another/more experience, may be getting much more. (=1SM 25.4).
            “Well” it indeed is just like God to not forget “the least of these” (Matt 25:45) even when people may have, as Chan himself amply decries, just done the typical Christian/Capitalist/American thing of: ‘just showing up, self|WE-catharticly feeling really bad, talked, even advocatingly, about it, but then just “moving on”’. God indeed is not forgetting the very least of people, especially the “little ones”, in this world who are suffering and dying from curable, preventable and/or intentional (e.g. abortees) cause. God likewise will not forget those who are actually ‘solvingly’ doing something substantive, sustainable and systematic to work to overturn all of these wrongs (Isa 49:14-21, 22-26; 54:11-14ff; Zech 2:7-10;16MR 19.2 (discussed within here at “The “Determined Time”” section); 8MR 219.1ff). Nor, conversely, will God “forget” the people, especially professing, but at best nominal, Christian who smug, selfishly, or at best, self-servingly, aren’t bothered, especially sacrificially so, to follow the model of Jesus and do all in their power to help these people in vital, critical and urgent need. No, He will indeed remember every such act./stance of omission, -and especially obstructive|warring persecution upon those who were endeavoring to live righteously (2 Tim 3:12; Rev 17:13-14; 19:11-16)), by such Satanically-deluded Babylonian apostates (=Rev 16:12-16); and justly, shockingly|wrathfully “reward” them!! (=Matt 25:41-46; Rev 14:9-11|DA 825.4)!!!



April 27, 2015
God’s Special Callings: Eric Metaxas (Rom 8:28-30)

I’ll, relatively briefly, pertinently include here, and discuss, Eric Metaxasconversion-dream experience-{more expoundingly related, e.g., here|mp3[09:28-26:43-33:08-37:40ff]; and do also see here[00:33-05:47ff] a prior “miraculous” [=“sign” (e.g. John 2:11, 23; John 2:18-22|Matt 16:1-4)] experience that Metaxas had 2-3 months before that dream.}, as I did indeed find it most interesting as it perfectly dovetails with how I have seen and experienced that God acts in certain situations. Again, (as I had jotted down in my notes for a (potential), similar, dedicated blog post about Kirsten Powers {friend of Metaxas}): I have yet to see/hear someone relate such a conversion experience or revelation/calling from God who, upon believing and accepting it, then proceeds to ‘sit on the sidelines’ and merely become a “pew warmer” in the Christian Church. Literally, the only time when I myself have come to see this was when reading a comment about Kirsten’s testimony when someone mentioned his similar conversion experience but did not relate how he then is now actively involved in publicly advocating and advancing Christianity. 
            My point here being that: clearly God does not so call/reveal Himself to every Christian or Convert in that way, so, as it was the case with Paul, He manifestly reserves this for a special purpose. I.e. when He wants to make use of the special talents, position or opportunity that someone may already have, or sequiturly could go on to have, for His Glory and for the advancement of His Christian cause. Paul, being of Pharisaical/Scholarly background, and a Roman Citizen, and even also a leading persecutor of Christians, was not even arguably the most prime/perfect person that God could call and use to pivotally establish the New Covenant amongst Jews and also the Christian Church amongst Gentiles throughout, pointedly, the then known Roman world. (Cf. Phil 3:4-6). In other words, when God so specially/uniquely acts to, effectively, “call” a person, it is because He has a special purpose for them to fulfill for Him. (Cf. Rom 8:28-30)
            So, as similarly done here for various other revelations, here are a few things that addedly Biblically/Spiritually struck me (cf. 1SM 25.4) from Eric Metaxas’ testimony and dream.

-First of all, I am, as a working-observation, thinking that with the pre-Millennials generations mostly having some sort of Religious/Christian background, however faint, as was the case with Metaxas (Greek Orthodoxy), and also as involved with Kirsten Powers (Episcopal), it may be that God has this lingering entry wedge to work with if He later would choose to specially call such a person. In other words, I myself have not heard such a testimony of special/convicting revelation from someone who was born, and grew up, in a purely/staunchly unbelieving/atheistic context. In my opinion, it may be the “prayers of a mother and/or father”, or just the planted seed of Truth/Faith, that God can, (as per Great Controversy “Rules of Engagement”-wise (cf. Job 1-2; Jude 1:8-9)) later work with to a certain degree all in proportion to the level of implanting and development of that seed and/or prayer.[13]

-Secondly, as already stated above, I have found that when God so calls someone, whether they were already Christian or not, the work which they most likely go on to do for Him, dovetails perfectly with the talent, skills and/or opportunity which they had, or were on route to, achieving.[14] In Metaxas’ case, he was already interested in writing, and has had gone on to continue in that field, but with now a Christian paradigm. Kirsten Powers may perhaps see the same thing in her work as a journalists since her conversion in 2006/2007 (cf. in this testimony summary).

-From, by now ample, personal experience and in examining the, especially extra-Biblical prophetic testimony/revelations of others, as stated in here, Eric Metaxas is right on in seeing that God did ‘use his own symbology in giving him that dream’. (~1SM 22.3) They were all symbols that Metaxas could/would readily understand, and thus most likely accurately interpret. And, as I see it being still necessary, in doing things this symbolic way, God was still able to involve a degree of faith in this calling experiences. In other words, despite the relatively clear calling/revelation, Metaxas would still have to believe, and in faith, act upon this. (Heb 11:6)

-As stated in 1SM 25.4, and demonstrated in the revelations analyses in that post, genuine revelations from God are typically multi-layered (e.g, Matt 24|Mark 13|Luke 21). Meaning that there is a typically top-most layer which can be readily understood by the receiver, but there also can be a secondary or more layer(s). So the three main symbols in Metaxas’s dream was:

-the bronze but really golden (ICHTUS) Fish
-his Basque fishing hobby
-his intellectualize view of Spirituality as ‘a layer of Frozen water on top of a unfrozen Lake’

From his own/prior experience, Metaxas indeed could rightly see this as depicted/developed in his dream as God showing him that there is a personal and real relationship to be had with His Son Jesus Christ, but I am also seeing a secondary layer/level of understanding from these symbols, and it actually is one that, -just judging from the (writing/speaking) work of Eric Metaxas, by manifestly/probably having been attentive and obedient to the leading of God’s Spirit, a further dream-meaning which he has already, “naturally”, fulfilled. (See DA 668.2-4:

“All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses.” (DA 668.3)

            Cf. An (annotated) analogic-parable here implicating such ‘“natural-super-natural” fulfillings’)

            So I am seeing Metaxas dream as being more than him grasping the Truth about Christianity, but also a revelation on the type of (Christian) work which God had intended for him to go on to do. (And yet, as it certainly can also be the case, Metaxas relates how it was a dream which impelled him to do a certain work, pointedly: for his first book, which was on Bonhoeffer, -which was really a career path/mission guidepost.)

(1) First of all the Fish is indeed related to the known/understood “ICHTUS” meaning, but as being a symbol of Christ, and with “waters” (Biblically) symbolically representing “peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues” (Rev 17:15), I am seeing here that God had ministering plans for Eric Metaxas to use his natural/hobby love of writing to be able to break through a somewhat hampering layer of peoples (=top frozen layer) and delve into a more Spiritualistic, and even Spiritual-humanistic, layer of people and help bring out a concrete, truth-full and real revelation of Jesus Christ. -And I would muse to, also symbol-interpretingly, say from God’s other revelation book/template: Nature, that: just as “ice” is produced from cold temperatures due to the seasonal conditions which prevent heating up from the Sun, then this ‘frozen over people’ is the result of a (Capitalistic) conditioned deficiency of Christlike Righteousness/Right-Doing (Mal 4:1-2; cf. Rev 7:16) all stemming from a drop in love of one another. (Matt 24:12) And particularly with his latest work/book: Miracles, -{view an excellent discussion about the book here (interviewed by a pastor: Todd Wagner)}; I am seeing that Metaxas has further advanced in this Divinely-planned work/contribution. And, just like a hole in the ice layer had, facilitatingly, already been made for Metaxas in his dream, with additionally, the fish which he rightly understood to represent Jesus Christ having come to the surface and thus made much easier to grasp, I am seeing that this prior dream of Metaxas had prepared him to be more open to similar supernatural/miracle claim,[15] however, as he promotingly stresses, justly critically so, which has all contributed to delving into this important topic both: within Christianity (e.g., the Pentecostal Movement) and for the unbelieving crowds.

(2) Metaxas’ prior works, (the ones, which thus far, I have become informed in), also did a similar contributive thing, pointedly in regards to what I also found to be representedly very significant in the color/composition of the Fish in the dream. Eric Metaxas initially (candidly) stated that the fish originally appeared to be bronze, but when he was holding it, he instead was seeing it more as gold-looking, but not only so, but really: ‘made out of gold’. With, as keyly expounded upon in here, “gold” in prophetic symbology being representative of: “faith and love combined, and love takes the precedence of faith.” (2T 36-37 on Rev 3:18), it is indicative to me that Metaxas’ prior works have typically been about highlighting the faithful and courageous lives of Christian heros and pioneers such William Wilberforce (e.g. here) and Dietrich Bonhoeffer (e.g. here), who have concretized the Christian faith/profession in the, even self-sacrificial loving actions that it is supposed to entail if/when needed, -and as involved in his dream, this is actually what bring true/full joy. (See John 15:10-13)

            Now this is also related to Metaxas first seeing the fish to be bronze. As discussed here, compared to gold and silver, bronze does not actually have much attractive/appealing luster, but it is the structurally strongest of those three metals. Well, it is most evident in Christian circles that the type of self-sacrificial and others serving life that people like Wilberforce & Bonhoeffer, and even most exemplarily, Jesus Christ, led, is one that most Christians do not want to live out. Yet, as (Secondarily) depicted in Metaxas’ dream, when, (as exhortingly preached by Francis Chan, -see above in this post, who, pertinently enough here, self-confesses that his messages are not highly intellectual, thus Chan convictingly reaches a distinct audience than Metaxas would): one takes hold of that Life/Person/Character of Christ, it not only provides then the fullest joy, but they then realize how ‘precious as true gold’ such an achieved life/living is versus the other options for life that one could have sought after instead.[16]

            So, virtually, “rescuing” those two fundamental aspects of Christianity, namely Supernatural, and Social, Consciousness & Pragmatism, which have both indeed come to effectively be made to be “off-limits”, and hard to grasp, by a ‘hardened top layer’ of (Western/Capitalistic/Cessationist (mainly) Christian) peoples, and thus “relegated” to a deemed “fringed” realm of people, such as in Eastern Religions and mysticism; and Secular-Humanism, have gradually been, and pointedly for a Western/Intellectual, even Christian, audience,  “fished” out by the corpus of Metaxas work and speaking, and rightly re-established as the Christian/Christ-like norm, through the highlighting of these Christian heroes and other concrete and valid examples.
           
            So, in summary, God was (1) indeed able to successfully get the attention and adherence of Eric Metaxas through the conversion impelling dream, but (2) God had not done this to have Metaxas just sit on the sideline and/or pursue a secularistic (writing) career, and by manifestly remaining faithful to God’s calling and guiding, Metaxas was thus able to “naturally” also ministeringly fulfill what God had intentioned for Him through that special revelation/calling. (John 15:16a) And in grasping and practicing such a True = Loving Christianity course (John 15:17; 2T 35.2) can the same Miracle power which assisted the Apostolic Church also be manifested in the, above-exposed: present, self-sufficient, Laodicean Age (Rev 3:14-21) Christian Church as they ask for, and act in, Jesus’ name. (John 15:16b (e.g. Acts 3:6-8|4:8-10); 2T 36.2-37.1 = Ezek 47:1-12).[17]

P.S. (=1b) - And I would also more widely add here in regards the symbol of a “fish” above, which indeed is implicated in Biblical symbology (Rev 8:9; 16:3b), with “waters” being various ‘populace’ groupings, just as “(land) beasts” represent territorial kingdom entities (Dan 7:17); and birds can be understood as ‘facilitating, small(er), powers’ (e.g. technologies); a fish or “sea/river/waters creature” can be seen as a sub-ruling powers (i.e. under territorial rule) that populace establish by/amongst them, and who power itself does not extend beyond/“live outside” of a “demo-”grouping. And I would here see any assembly/union type of organization wherether for business, church and even political parties. (Case in point with “parties”, a “Green”, or any other, Political Party may exist in a country, but unless they become part of the government, they then have no power beyond their political grouping).
            So that all explained, I would see this “fish” in Metaxas’ dream to be representative of such an ‘organized populace entity’. And the thing with Christians is that in the New Covenant, they were not sent to overtake by military force other the Kingdoms as was Old Covenant Israel in their Conquest of Canaan. Instead, as explained in here at/about Rev 6:3-4 & Rev 8:8-9 there, even ‘world overturning’ (Acts 17:6) power would be from merely their organization as a/(The) Church, and them missionally going about the world, and in emulation of their Leader & Savior Jesus Christ (=the Preeminent “Gold/Golden {in value/luster} but also Bronze {in strength} Fish”) and through the power of the Holy Spirit: ‘teaching Christ’s Truth(s) (Matt 28:20), making disciples (Matt 28:19) and doing good (Acts 10:38)” (Acts 1:8)....(to the resulting tune now of ca. one-third of the world).
            And that is all, especially now, pertinent to Eric Metaxas and his ministry&influence, because, as he expounds upon here[21:46-23:12-27:23] he, as stated earlier, is (rightly) big on ‘Christians not relegating their Faith to merely a Religious/Private corner’ but to, as Jesus exhorted, ‘let their light shine bright in the world’ (Matt 5:14-16). Thus in public and the “public arena”. But there is here always the danger of crossing the line in a Believer endeavoring to impose their Faith/Religious Beliefs upon others through the Political/Legislative/Judicial arms of the “public arena”. Instead this “light shining” should, as involved Rev 6:3-4 & Rev 8:8-9 via the “good works” which they voluntary, ministeringly do amongst the people. (=Matt 5:16 -see this sermon). So I am seeing that there is included instruction to Eric Metaxas in the (‘hobby’)ministry that he is fulfillingly doing, to make sure that he does not cross that populace vs. government line and instead focus on: ‘drawing (cf. John 6:44; Matt 4:19) golden fishes which are amongst the peoples’ so that they may do that proper, Christ-emulating and -mandated Good: “Loving and Faith(ful-l) works amongst men/the world, much like the (type of) people, as cited above, who Metaxas typically writes/speaks about, even self-sacrificially (cf. John 6:44b), did. (=As per the (perhaps unofficial) motto of Metaxas’ (new) general-spiritual audience radio talk show: “Changing the world, one person at a time.”)    Ergo Eric: Keep things “grassroots” ...(or should it be: algae-roots)!!

Notes
[1] And it is those who are truly/actually (substantively) “sighing and groaning/crying” (Ezek 9:4; 3T 366.2-367.1) for the capital & vital (=) “abominable” (e.g., Matt 25:45; cf. DA 825.4) sins which are being committed & omitted in the Church, and indeed not merely in the SDA Church*, but the wider, i.e., “12 Tribes (of God NT/New, really, “Enduring/Continued” Israel)” (James 1:1; Rev 12:1ff) Christian Church at large, which pointedly is in regards to the, moreover worshipful, various adhering to world conforming Capitalistic principles, policies and mentalities in trying to conduct and accomplish God’s work. It is solely these sincere ones, who moreover are actively doing something tangible to overturn these capital wrongs, -and certainly not even those, (with their various, helplessly revered, “elementaryDr. Seuss understandings and claims), who merely are, and yet Pharisaically (Matt 5:20; 23)” so, paying a, ‘(to some effective or deliberate degree:) ‘position-seeking’, pun-intended, “gloss-y” (Jer 6:1-13, 14, 15-21ff), self-serving (Ezek 13:1-8, 9-11, 12-16, 17-22), (even grandstandinly sermoniclip service (Matt 21:28-32; Isa 29:9-12, 13, 14-16), who will ever have the Amos 3:7 privilege to come to Spiritually and prophetically become part of the “advancing ones” (=Dan 12:3-4, 10)) who will know and understand that God has indeed long found that His (pointedly {=Rev 11:2} Remnant) Church has capitally failed His weighing/measuring/evaluating of her (Rev 11:1) and, along with a corresponding Eschatological resetting of all end-time prophecies, (which is how&why this presently is indeed the “(Eschatological) Fifth Era of prophecy”), is long in the process of being replaced and superceded (=15MR 292.3-4; LDE 59-61 -indeed it’s LOL telling how SDA’s do not think that such strong SOP warnings apply to them... all because: ‘(now) “time” is running out’)....and that this, indeed accompanying” “Four Winds withholding” event (=Rev 7:1-3 see here; then (e.g.) here for Rev 7:4-8), -as most tangibly first begun to be seen, -as fully discussed here, in the aborted prophetic 9/11/01 Event; reveals the (SDA (futilely) slighting and indifferent to) Overruling and Sovereign Almighty Power of God to duly (Jer 18:1-10) abort, or “thwart” when applicable, any, and even if already “embroiled”, prophetic event (-typologically enough: just ask the First Century Jewish Nation (Matt 23:37-24:2)!!)...and that/thus any claim today, pointedly within SDA circles), of “fulfilling Final Event prophecies”, -(e.g., in the Feb. 2014 ‘Catholic+Charismatics rapprochement’ =see e.g., Batchelor||Rafferty||Bohr||Veith||Pacleb||Hudsonff||“+”Mansour**), are just, yet still self-testingly purposeful, Divinely-permitted, but “held in check” (cf. LDE 239.1ff), developments mainly out of mere: “gas fumes”, i.e.: “(Four) Winds breezes”!!...As it was involved in Amos 5:18-20, during a prior, likewise “Shaking/Sifting” by God, these, especially Spiritually clueless, smuggy Losers think that the “Coming” of God won’t be a day of their transparent defeat!!! (=Matt 25:41-46; LDE 218.3-219.3)

* And contrary to the typical shorted/shallowed SDA mentality (pertinently e.g. here), it (LOL) “red-herringedly” is not the now manifested “symptom” of them not being able to arrive at a conclusively sound and cogent Biblical basis for the (actually non-cultural) valid belief of the Holy Spirit’s own: Calling/Appointing/Ordination/Anointing of (also) women to all/any positions in God’s (NT) Israel, but the underlying, indifferently ignored, “faultline” which has produced that looming “(mere seismic vs. (actual) sifting) shaking” (=Rev 11:13), which is the, also, (abominable) Capitalistic ways/approaches, -both in terms of resource investments/expenditures and structural procedures, in which the Church’s scholarship has been dealing with this, and several other still not exhaustively&conclusively resolved issues.

** In regards to what Nader Mansour undergirdingly, “extraly” alludes to here about his counter-Trinity views, see here.

[2] And it would be one thing if, as topically discussed here [01:01:05], that ‘all would be “zealous goers”’, and, if none would, or could, at all, or sufficiently, be the (albeit fellow-countrymen (Matt 10:5-6)) ‘grateful, reciprocally-supporting benefitters’ of Matt 10:8-9 (cf. 2 Cor 8:7-15), God would then surely do another miracle like the post-Exodus one where He fully took care of over 2,000,000 people in a desert for ca. 40 years...but what would be the better, genuine faith-building approach towards (defiant) unbelievers in this ‘most wayward generation’: (a) quite evident, supernatural interventions (cf. Matt 16:1-4); -where, moreover, any persisted unbelief then would mean sure damnation; or, through a “fully” re-established (=EW 269-273) Church Triumphant (=Rev 6:1-2 = Rev 19:11; LDE 61.2-62.2) which, Spiritually-naturally (cf. 1 Cor 2:6-16) indeed: Shows the World” (b) the implicit “sign” of truly converted Christian showing to the world, especially if “going” from the quite rich Western First World, that they are not idolatrously/materialistically-controlled and have whole-heartedly, wholly/fully devoted all of their wealth, and “power to make wealth” to the cause of Christ and the Triumphant advancement of His Kingdom. Seems to me that given the actual present state of affairs where it indeed is the super-majoritarily “Christian” Western World which is leading the rest of the world into, as spelled out by David Platt here|here, the: ‘Christ-effacing American Dream idol and self-worship’, that it would be ‘Approach “b”’ which is most needed now, both internally in the Church and also externally for the rest of the world. Indeed because that approach would (1) allow for genuine, non-overly compelled conversion to the Gospel Truth; (2) provide, through a then established inter-sustaining socio-economy, sufficient time for this message to properly “naturally” spread throughout the world; and (3) inherently provided, (as stated in here), what Jesus said would enduringly be the greatest testimony to the ‘world-overturing Gospel Message’: ‘the true “oneness” unity of/amongst believers and with their God’ (John 17:20-23; cf. Acts 2:1 (NJKV)). Conversions because of “signs” and/or even concrete evidence has never been God’s preferred approach towards fallen men (cf. John 20:29), as they all (Rom 3:23), helplessly (Isa 64:6) require the great mercy provided by faith (cf. Heb 11:6), because then, as several instances in the Bible show (e.g., Acts 5:1-11), He would be due to more stringently judged then according to that ‘more evident’ level. (Cf. Luke 12:45-48). And God actually will not do for us what we actually can do for ourselves, such as in this case, Western Christians making use of their wealth, knowledge and capability advantage to do, and actually much more through e.g., advanced technology, what is needed to fully and properly fulfill Christ’s Gospel Commission.

[3] Relatedly, Francis Chan also often humoristically remonstrates, e.g. here [22:10-23:46], the typical nursery school/cradle roll depictions of the Flood which deliberately ignore the fact that people then were actually drowning all around the ark by the millions....Interestingly enough to me, I don’t recall my own childhood never not having that Biblical picture/reality as it was greatly set by the depiction below from “Uncle” Arthur S. Maxwell’s The Bible Story children book set which did indeed show some of the Antedulivians drowning and desperately trying to make it to and on Noah’s floating ark. (In fact, in my set’s edition/printing, that image was also used as part of the inside cover....So, with that Genesis story, of course, being related in Volume #1 (of 10 vols.), it literally was the, actually second-ary, imagery, (-secondary to the different image on/for, of course, the outside cover, that I, or any other child would see when starting to read through that set.).


The Bible Story’s Flood Depiction

[4] Indeed it is most evidently “logical” to see and understand that there surely can’t be something beneficial in eating creatures which, (moreover on their face and behavior are quite ugly, “creepy”/grotesque and dirty/filthy),* quite scientifically and renownly were, literally, designed and created by God to function as this planet’s ‘garbage/waste collecting-processing-storage-and-then-(mainly inherently)-disposing system (e.g. swine (cf. Isa 65:4; 66:16-17)), and even at a multi-layered, food chain, level where e.g., vultures will (in nature) later come and dispose of the dead flesh and carcasses of these land scavenger animals. In fact meat eating itself in general was only a necessary/emergency, post-flood providing permission by God due to the natural ravages that the sin-checking Flood judgement had inherently brought upon then Earth. (Gen 9:1-5).

* And it is quite telling to me, that, upon having merely, ca. three times, initially/quasi-inadvertently eaten [in i.e., bought, ready-made frozen dinners, with neither: (a) painstakingly picking out these meat pieces; (b) returning them to the grocery store; or (c) just throwing them away was/proved to actually be: (a) productively practical; (b) temporally economical; or (c) non-, overall, wasteful [cf. this PSA]], pork/bacon and shellfish-type seafood, that the knee-jerk, vomitous-gag-reflex that I immediately had was clearly because such foods, -which to me literally felt and tasted like ruminated and regurgitated meat, are inherently an acquired, and even perpetually tolerated, “taste”. Really, I just couldn’t understand how people can even eat these meats, let alone find them delicious. It is all just like what is involved in drinking the fuel alcohol, as well as, including, and simply from the (organic) smell of it, beer. Same thing with smoking...anything thing/herb. They all just do not defaultly pass the natural taste and/or “smell” test.
[5] Similarly enough, not only did EGW manifestly merely occasionally herself eat (clean) meat after receiving and giving the Health Reform Revelation, (with the issue, cited here, of her unknowingly eating unclean meat (=oysters) for some time not pertinent here), she, while counseling as the best course, to avoid animal products such as eggs (3SM 287.2; TSDF 59.5), did (now controversially; cf. in here) later recommend them to certain people who were not finding a nutritively adequate replacing substitute, and their health had become greatly deteriorated, to ‘get and eat eggs’ (2SM 303.1 -See the, then nutritionally not-yet-known, Vitamin B12 implication in the further detailing testimony here[25:01-27:56]) So such Health Reform issues are indeed, as EGW fully understood (See e.g., CD 365.1-366.1; TSDF 40.4-41.2; 9T 161.4-162.4), out of balanced reason for providing the best health and not a salvation issue, unless of course one knowingly knows that their diet is literally killing them but choose to not reform them. Indeed as irrational as it would be for a patient to ignore a doctors recommendation, which manCounter-Reformationy times includes such Health/Diet Reform advices/recommendations to heal their otherwise sure, or potentially, fatal condition/illness/disease. And, in regards to EGW’s statement that an unrestrained diet leads people to sin indulging, pointedly in the advanced case where one indeed does not care that their diet is surely killing them, it can surely be also seen that they, through such an effective suicidal mentality, particularly if they are mentally sane/balanced, with actually poor diet also affecting one’s mental function, also are likewise not careful or caring in another Spiritual aspect of their life, as effectively not really or fully caring that they testifying live their best and full life for, and to the glory of, God. (1 Cor 10:31)

[6] Frankly, and really warningly, to hear Ray Comfort here [10:50], (clearly straightly saying: ‘what he really thinks’ (=Matt 12:34b)), irrationally attempt to lay a blame on ‘SDA’s/people who keep and teach the Seventh Day Sabbath’ for there not being a revival in the world or Christianity, and that (falsely) pointedly ‘because they spend all their time and efforts preaching the Sabbath’ is eerily alarming not merely because it indeed is so irrationally false, but because it almost verbatim echoes the (Plan “B”) EGW-SOP-prophesied “rationale” as to why Sabbath keepers would be blamed for the woes of the world, leading to definite actions to “silence” them. (e.g., LDE 255.4; 269.4). With now most Christians accepting as binding the Ten Commandments, (well actually 9-9.25), and with them, particularly in the United States, (actually rightly in some cases), claiming every crisis/disaster as a direct/allowed judgement from God (e.g., 9/11; Hurricane Katrina, SuperStorms, etc), it is not at all implausible, nor unlikely that when God will have ceased to hold the Four Winds of Rev 7:1-3; -and with most of these Christians steep in the Counter-Reformation heresy of Futurist-Dispensationalism (cf. here)* which, slyly enough, does not allow them to apply anything beyond Rev 4:1 to there own lifetime/presence on this Earth, that the ensuing various natural disasters and global crisis from unrestrained human passions, will surely lead them to formally call for a return to God, by enforcing the Ten Commandments as the Supreme Law of the land, and then, when these calamities continue, as this is actually not of God’s doing, then, as here, the “blame” for there still not being an end of these calamities will be blamed on those who are not keeping their “Christian Sabbath” of Sunday, and are preaching against it. And so, also most “logically”, in order to save themselves in the light of these increasing Plague Calamities, it will be seen as just and expedient to silence with death those who are not falling in line with these “Reforms” (cf. e.g. GC 608.1; PK 605.2-3)....And now, in the more advanced Plan A development of the (Eschatological) MOB prophetic scenario, the same murderously faulting “rationale” will be applied to those who refuse to go by the likewise “mixedly anti-Sabbatical (thus all of God’s Law (Jam 2:8-12))” delusion from Capitalism in regards to the other part of God’s Sabbatical Rule which pertains to socio-economic affairs and “right-doing”.

* On one hand it was most relieving/refreshing to see from the Francis Chan founded Eternity Bible College, that, as seen in pertinent online presentations on Revelation, they themselves do not (fully) go by that foundational prophecy interpreting tenet that: ‘most of Revelation belongs only to the future, and will only be (literalistically) fulfilled amongst/on/with Ethnic Jews’, -(though this was/(is?) the actual/expressed view of Francis Chan himself as seen in his 2000-2001, 28-part Revelation series in here -(probably only before he started (more/better) studying such things for himself instead of wholly trusting the claims of others)); nor do they go by the flip side of the Counter-Reformation ploy here of claiming that ‘all of Revelation was fulfilled during the First Century A.D.’ (=Preterism). Indeed, also on one hand, it is great to see/hear that they instead, or also, understand that prophecy still speaks to God’s people today, however, on that “other hand”, it is somehow harrowing that they (1) only see this as being quasi-philosophically and genericly applicable; and (2) that this was the similar case for prior generations of believers. But, in regards to Christians interpreting and understanding the prophecies of Revelation (and Daniel), that is quite a “good start”, for it is not at all remote to be able to not only see, -as the Reformers, and Protestants leaders following them did, how these prophecies actually did have a specific, lone wave of fulfillment during the course of Church History, leading these to clearly see from Scripture that e.g. the Papacy was (the chief) AntiChrist (see prophetic detailing from here) and its Roman Catholic Church|Holy Roman Empire was the “(Spiritual) Babylon” of Rev 17+18; and that God’s faithful, Bible believing people were being held Captive within it and must “come out of her” (Rev 18:4); but also, once all the foundational truths of the Bible, anchored by Christ’s (True) Sabbath, are properly understood and involved, that, beyond that specific historical wave, there presently is also a specifically fulfilling eschatological wave which, as EBC rightly, but ‘philosophically/genericly’ understands, likewise pits those who are being most faithful to do all, and only, what God/Christ (actually) requires in His Word vs. those, including professed believers, who are not being that fully, or at all, faithful. [However, as seen below with their Dan 9 course, the EBC prophetic interpretation position can really be substantively characterized as being: ‘“half”-Dispensationalist-pregnant’; -and so, literally, (naturally) “confusingly” (Rev 18:4), “going both ways”....(Cf. Chan here (mp3) [36:59-40:02] versus the popular, (but utterly spurious), “pre-tribulation rapture” claim.)#......].

# Probably this “interpretational dualism” actually stems from Francis Chan’s own foundational, college-learned “hermeneutics”, as expressed here (mp3) [10:23-11:54ff] in regards to Rev 7:4-8's 144,000 that claims that: “If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense.”...Well, and most succinctly fleshed out here, and through a copious amount of Biblical, especially NT, examples: that is exactly the kind of non-Spirit-ual mindset that Jesus used, especially through His parables, to fasten the Jews in their rebelliously unrighteous (John 7:17) ways. (Matt 13:10-17 = Isa 6:8-13; cf. John 2:13-22), and that is a key/necessary modus operandi that the Heavenly Intelligence used/still uses in regards to apocalyptic prophecy by, as for Revelation, “signifying” (Rev 1:1b = ‘codingly symbolizing’; cf. within here) them so that they can thus be naturally concealed from (cf. Dan 12:4, 9) the, tellingly enough, “natural”/unSpiritual (1 Cor 2:6-16), “immature” (Heb 5:11-6:3) “undisciplined” (Heb 12:3-11), non-righteous (cf. Dan 12:3, 10), man, indeed, as expounded on here in regards to Isa 28:5-13 to their sure downfall. And towards that purpose, the book of Revelation itself patently draws from other parts of the Bible, especially (priorly literalistic parts of) the OT in order to Spiritually, reapplyingly, make use of those episodes for now New Covenant Israel’s re-drawn Apocalypse.
            And the “funny” thing is that none of the “literally sensical” interpretations/applications that Futurist-Dispensationalists claim actually make any Biblical/Theological, or even logical sense to begin with. E.g. the claiming that the 144,000 can only be literal, post-rapture, second-chance/no needed faith, converted ethnic Jews does not, on several levels, begin to harmonize with several fundamental Biblical/Theological, New Covenant teachings and understandings (Gal 3:26-29; Rom 2:28-29; 9:6-9, 24–26; Eph 2:11-14; Jam 1:1; Heb 8:7-13). {Case in point, despite Francis Chan’s honest disclaiming effort, he still cannot, in the inherently, double-talkingly, self-dissonant statements he makes at here (mp3) [19:11-21:25], rationalize the inherently heretical, patent Dispensationalist theological/prophetic premise that: ‘Ethnic Jews in the end will need to have the Old Covenant system and Temple reestablished in order to be saved.} Then on the “logical” level, the 10 northern tribes of Israel had long been completely ethnically dissolved, especially Spiritually, even by the time of Christ, and the surviving two (Judah and Benjamin, had themselves morphed into one tribe). So it is actually a genetic impossibility to now actually find a Jew who purely is from any one of the literal tribes of Israel. So here, as modeled throughout the NT, a Spiritual understanding of what constitutes a Jew, and who now form the 12 tribes of God’s Israel is indeed in order.
            Personally, from my own prophetic studies and experiences (cf. Isa 29:9-14|Isa 42:18-21|1SM 25.4), I have increasingly been finding less and less portions of, particularly/surprisingly, the book of Revelation which actually, and that eschatologically, have a literalistic meaning. (For me the last potential literalistic “bastion” was the 1000 years of Rev 20:4's “Millennium”, however right in that context proper linguistic exegesis of Rev 20:7a reveals that even that time period in not necessarily definite as (targetedly) expressed.).
            Summarily admonished, The only viable method for Chan and other interpreters of the Bible’s Apocalyptically-applicable prophecies is to have the hermeneutic of ‘letting prior revelations, and latest, especially, Christocentric/New Covenant, understandings (as seen in the already cited examples, along with e.g. these: Heb 9:23-24ff; 12:22-24), in the Bible define/interpret subsequent/future ones’ (=Isa 8:20). Indeed the involved converse counsel in Isa 28:5-13 is clear that ‘any endeavor to narrow-mindedly, “drunkenly” (=Rev 17:2, 4, 6; 18:3, 24) understand Godly things through humanistic/base/non-Spiritual dispositions will indeed only end up in God’s concealedly intended, just overturning (=Rev 16:19; 17:13-14, 17-18; 18:5-6ff).

            So to here merely succinctly point out head on some of the key areas of inceptive skewing divergence from those EBC presentations:

-On EBC’s Rev 10 one here: exegetically Rev 10:2 speaks of an “having been opened little scroll” which is understood to be one of the 7 (little) scrolls in Rev 5-6, with indeed those scroll having clearly/explicitly already been opened before Rev 10 throughout Rev 6; then Rev 8:1. (See this blog post for the past historical and present eschatological wave of (tangible) fulfillments); 

-On EBC’s Rev 11 one here: the period of Papal Supremacy of 1260 years from 538-1798 A.D. is hard to refute with the main method use being to claim that the “42 months” mentioned there must be literal. Yet all of these claimants will have no problem applying the prophetic Day-Year Principle to the 70 Weeks prophecy# (See this blog post on, prominently the present eschatological wave of fulfillment, which nonetheless is Spiritually cognate to its historical wave).

# And pertinently, about those 70 Weeks, it is somewhat odd to (at least honestly/truthfully/“Freudianly”) ultimately, confessingly (dissonantly) see from an EBC professor, (Joshua Grauman), here[54:02-55:10], upon him having completed its class presentation, still somewhat question its (Sensical/Theological/Chronological) validity.... (prior to giving those patent, but patently contra-Biblical (e.g. Rom 11:17-24), spurious Futurist-Dispensationalist rationalizations). The “Biblical Interpretation of Daniel’s Seventy Weeks” is concretely so much more certain and accurate, and does serve as the Spiritual foundation/cornerstone/anchor/backbone of all Bible prophecies.

-On EBC’s Rev 12 one here: It is somewhat mystifying see/hear one inherently think that the scope of Rev 12 cannot extend from the birth of Christ into, and through, Church History, i.e. right to the ending of Catholic persecution and opposition at the end of the 1260 prophetic days (=years) period (Rev 12:6, 14) in 1798 and around the time of the rise of the United States (Rev 12:16ff), but it is quite easy to see that this is all from a false fundamental basis where one thinks that this Rev 12 prophecy, as well as the prophecies in Revelation, are fulfillable only according to a strictly linear and sequential wave of fulfillment. Understanding how Revelation is actually, quite cleverly, structurally organized by God is most helpful here. (See e.g.: within this blog post on Rev 12 to see how it was fulfilled in Church History; and also foundationally significantly,  here on its ‘retrospectively parenthetical’ “War in Heaven” and also here in regards to the “dragon” character, as the reason for, and understanding of, that symbolic representation was here also, even foundationally so, “genericly philosophized” by EBC.)
            Claiming, as EBC fundamentally does (see e.g. here[50:51-52:48ff]), that: ‘the “point” of [Apocalyptic] Bible prophecy is merely for ‘details-less’, generic encouragement reasons’ is merely the “easy out”of those who do not know of, nor have, the actual, or “Full” Spiritual & Righteousness experience of its tangible and specific, ongoing fulfillings centered on God’s actual New Covenant “Israel” in NT history through today, which thus, (as e.g. here|here) guides them to easily see and understand these pointed applications. (Dan 12:3-4, 9-10).

            From ample fulfillments already, God clearly has wisely designed His prophesies to be unwittingly fulfilled by even/especially those who, in such irrational attempts to whitewash/justify themselves would then take another irrational next step to condemn those who are rightly reproving them. (E.g., John 11:45-50; 13:21-30; cf. Dan 12:3, 10) It indeed makes no sense to blame (not even) 18 million members of ‘a Church and other Sabbath Keepers for there not being revival, and the lost not being reached’, when there are 2.3 billion Christians (ca. 1 Billion of them Protestants) out there who, if they each devoted one year to reach just one person, the Gospel would have been preached to everyone on this planet within 2-3 years. (~1 Kgs 18:17-18|PK 139.3-142.2). So the “blame” here entirely is on Christians in general, and not on the ca. 18-30 million Sabbathkeepers out there.
            Now if Ray Comfort, somehow ‘only runs into SDA/Sabbatarian people who are preaching the Sabbath to him’, well it most likely has to do with the fact that these people know that he is a Christian (e.g., merely by the content of his street preaching), and with Comfort typically, (as seen in e.g,. his ‘Abortion’ [23:58ff]; “Noah” [21:13ff]; ‘Evolution’ [24:20ff]; “Genius” [16:38ff] issues presentations), rightly using the Ten Commandment as the arbitrator into what is right/sinless conduct; -(also rightly having primely denounced the Evangelical move away from preaching the 10 Commandments as “Hell’s Best Kept Secret”), it then is duly not at all surprising that any Sabbath-keeper in his audience then would not hold him accountable for, succinctly said here: effectively presenting a “cyanidic” false gospel of 9-9.5 Commandments to people (James 2:8-13; Heb 10:26-27; 1 John 3:4 =Matt 7:21-23). The honest and sincere Christian cannot (1) do a proper studying out of the Biblical and Historical Sabbath vs. Sunday issue, and from such factual information, (2) honestly ignore these facts that there is ample evidence that, though there was an early centuries change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it actually just was not, as eisegetically/“retroactively” claimed/attributed: done, taught or prescribed by the Apostolic Church, but “conveniently” came into being after they had all passed away, and gradually grew to wider acceptance in the Early Christian Church until it was formally/exclusively established by the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea (363-364 A.D).
            While, as remonstrated in here, SDA’s themselves can additionally do much more in regards to more elevating the parts of their message which most prominently present Jesus Christ (cf. this historically-recollecting re-exhortation), it is actually a procedural fact that SDA’s, who probably member-per-member are most involved in public evangelism than any other (single) Christian denomination, and that (cohesively) globally (i.e., literally and/or virtually in the most countries; [cf. e.g. here]), do have several (explicitly presented) gospel messages during their typical 10|16|28-meetings evangelistic campaigns (e.g., Prophecies Decoded; Discover Prophecy; Revelation of Hope; Millennium Of Prophecy; Revelation Today). And determinatively enough here, other Christians out there, typically have a single night (Billy Graham style) Evangelistic crusade event, and yet these events are not only statistically still not more frequent than the sum of evangelistic meeting efforts by the SDA Church, but they also are not producing the same results, with the SDA denomination, despite its many serious issues, still being one of the fastest growing Christian denominations out there. (See also here with its Note). (Perhaps Ray Comfort thinks that ‘if SDA’s would just stop preaching the Sabbath’ then they would be baptizing more people!?? -Yet tellingly enough, while SDAs have a (relatively) lamentable evangelism retention rate of ca. 60%, Ray Comfort has cited typical dismally atrocious figures of 10%-20% for ‘“normal, modern” Evangelical evangelism efforts’). And in regards to the various subjects that SDA’s typically cover on a one-per-night basis during their Evangelistic campaigns, such as: the Origin of Evil, Salvation, Creation Origins, Death, Hell, Morality/Law, Heaven etc, while Ray Comfort, as seen in his presentations cited above, does cite them, but merely briefly, given that these issues are not a clear-cut and simplistic as such a brief treatment would think they are, they do indeed each deserve a night each to be covered, along with the most quasi-tangible/objective proof of His Existence that God has provided for faith in Himself: (by now also many historically fulfilled) Bible Prophecy (e.g, Isa 46:9-11; 48:3-8; Luke 24:25-27); -an ‘evangelism (proofing) sector’ which Christians in general only partly at best ever go into, (and with their (Dispensationalist) presentation on the 70 Weeks -{the greatest objective (Messianic, if not General) prophecy in the Bible}, actually being factually close but still erroneous), particularly when it comes to the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as, again, they have been conditioned to just ignore these as inconsequential to anyone but Ethnic Jews and the “left behind” unsaved/really wicked.
            And so, from all of these realities and facts, you indeed actually have to look squarely at Christians outside of SDA’s/Sabbathkeepers as the actual reason why there is not a revival in Christianity and the world. And it clearly has to do with the recent-history “sloppy-Agape” message that they have been preaching all this time and making shallow/superficial converts where e.g., ca. 80% of people in the U.S. can claim themselves to be Christians. So the blame is not at all on Sabbath-keepers, but rather, and just going by actual highest conversion/growth success rates from SDA’s, other Christians not having enough of a Biblical, Congruent and/or Prophetically-proven message and/or witness/testimony to convict the unbeliever of the validity of their profession.
            And to summarily, succinctly put things into their proper perspective here, God does “wink” at the days of ignorance of people and does still work with them even in their yet complete faith walk and works, as so, as detailedly presented in this post, His Sanctifying work amongst His professed People (i.e. Christians) does, as with His, now Heavenly, Sanctuary (Heb 8:1-6ff),* have a threefold procedure, namely:

(1) the Court Yard: where the Sacrifice for sin was made = Where most Christians presently are.

(2) the Holy Place: where the sanctifying application of that Sacrifice was administered, and which afforded enough of awareness, even look into the Most Holy Place, -at God’s Ark of the Covenant (=God’s Throne) and His Ten Commandment Law (cf. Rev 11:19) = the present position of many, particularly Sabbath-Keeping Christians.

(3) the Most Holy Place: where only those who, like the ministering High Priest, are completely blameless before God can enter within and “fully” take in its blessings. (=Rev 3:21 -See here) = this is, and will be, the reward of all those who will have come to the practically inculcated intellectual/theological, “Full Righteousness & Justice” (cf. Psa 89:14; 97:2) Truths and understandings as presently being brought to “Light” by the FSZC+NJK ministry.

* Tellingly enough to me, the very first time that I myself came across a most Biblical exposition about Christ’s priestly ministering in the Heavenly Sanctuary was when, in early Autumn 1998, I was Sunday Church hopping (and with those Churches being within a few hundred feet of each other), including a Mormon Church, while staying in the Oakwood College area in Huntsville, Alabama, and sat in the service of a Christian Church where the pastor was (exegetically/expositorily) preaching this message from the book of Hebrews. In fact, he amusedly did notice how visibly surprised/shocked I was that they also taught and believed this.
            In fact, this Biblical Doctrine/Understanding from the book of Hebrews about Christ’s, sole and all-efficacious, High Priestly ministry/ministering in the Anti-typical Heavenly Sanctuary was one which the Christian Church fully knew, and in faith honored, until arose the usurping, Old Testament-styled “religious order” of earthly priests from the Papacy. And, succinctly stated here, this was all prophetically anticipated (=Dan 8:8-12) with Satan surely trying to slyly do all that He can to detract from the sanctifyingly redeeming work of Christ towards believers. And in the blasphemously pompous and power ambitious bishopry of Rome, Satan was able to find the necessary “pawns” through which he could, upon, as Paul understood, the ‘removal of the Pagan Rome hegemony’, set up, through now Papal Rome, this great and most detrimental “man of sin” apostasy and deception (indeed one which dually, slyly lead people to break one of God’s commandments (cf. e.g. Jam 2:8-13), and also look away from the tangible sins sanctifying and removing High Priestly work of Christ (Heb 8-10)), right within God’s Church, which, as also prophetically anticipated, has (“successfully”) deceptively still endured/lasted to this day (=2 Thess 2:1-12):

Dan 8:8-9a - With Dan 8, unlike Dan 7, pointedly focusing on the religious history and developments amongst God (OT and then NT) Israel*, and as proper exegesis pinpoints: an, at first diminutive, world power symbolized by a “little horn”, was to arise out of one of the four winds to which the prior rule of Greece (Dan 8:21) had been established through the conquests of Alexander, and as continued therein by his four leading generals (Dan 8:22), -when the pagan hegemonic power of these and then Rome had passed and waned. (Dan 8:23).

* Which is actually why, unlike prior paralleling prophecies which begin with Babylon Dan 2:36-38; 7:4; since Babylon did not at all contribute, especially constructively, to, and by God’s overseeing influence, Israel’s Life and Religion, having destroyed and desecrated its City and Temple (cf. Dan 5:2-3); it was not included in this prophecy; which, moreover, was given in 551 B.C. (Dan 8:1) some 15 years before Babylon was overthrown, and just 2 years (Dan 7:1) after the prior prophecy which has started with it, Babylon. Indeed, unlike Babylon, the other major world powers were not intentionally detrimental to God’s Israel. I.e., Medo-Persia went on to most greatly contribute to the rebuilding of Jerusalem and its Temple (e.g., Ezra 1; 7; Neh 1); as recounted in Josephus, likewise influenced by Biblical prophecy, Greece’s leader Alexander and his armies, opted to not attack, and even partially tax-exempted, Jerusalem (Antiquities 11:8.4-6 {#325-#340}); and then suprisingly enough, even during the 70 A.D. destruction, as Josephus also recounts, Rome, through its General Titus, did not, at first, at all want to do any harm/damage to Jerusalem or its Temple. (Wars 6:6.1-4 {#316-#356}). It was rather, as prophetically expected in Dan 9:26b (cf. in here) the rebelling Jewish people who “caused” this utter destruction to happen.

Dan 8:9b - That little horn power then “grew” from its base in, (by process of elimination with the “Beautiful Land” being Palestine = the (Israel-relative) West), the “North” (= geographically: Europe [even, Cryptically/Symbolically/Spiritually (cf. 1 Pet 5:13; Rev 11:8): Babylon (Jer 50:9; 51:48)]), more specifically in Rome, and, tactfully making use of available/obtainable civil power (Dan 8:23b-24a), prominently/paramountly expanded its religious influence, i.e., primarily amongst already established/present Christian converts/believers (Dan 8:24b), as far as possible towards the Eastern (=Near East) realms, towards the South (=Egypt, North Africa), and thus endeavored to pick up things where Rome had ended in the land of Palestine in regards to former Israel, the Jewish People/Religion (70 A.D.) and Jerusalem (125 A.D.), by itself reestablishing, now in Rome, -as the Pagan power was increasingly, seamlessly falling, the politico-religious power center that had existed in that formerly “Beautiful/Honorable/“Holy” Land”(Dan 11:16, 41), and including the earthly Temple/Sanctuary/priesthood elements which were centered on Mount Zion (Dan 11:45) = (Dan 8:25a)

Dan 8:10 - Thus it “tramplingly” interfered with Christ’s Earth-Heaven interactive work (Rev 1:12-13ff; cf. John 1:41), including indeed through His (Levites-like) assisting sanctuary ministering/effectuating spirits/angels (Heb 1:7; Rev 1:20ff). (=Dan 8:25b)

Dan 8:11 - And as infamously claimed by the Papacy, [and yet this oddly seems to be, unlike the Reformation days, increasingly a hushed-hushed and overlooked issue of difference for Protestants], it even sought to make itself equal to Christ, this “Michael” commander of the heavenly host (e.g. Rev 8:2-6), by seeking to make itself, i.e., its Papacy-Priestly Office equal to Christ’s, indeed as the “Vicar of the Son of God”, thus indeed causing the Heavenly Sanctuary message of Heb 8-10 to be, and even through persecutive force upon dissenters, virtually completely eclipsed in Christianity. (Cf. Dan 7:24b-25)

Dan 8:12-14 - This state of Heavenly Sanctuary usurping and eclipsing affairs would last until God’s appointed, “time of the end” (Dan 8:17, 19, 26), prophetic 2300-day (even annual days of atonements) time, namely, from the ensuing (Dan 8:27; 9:20-23), anchoring, explanation through the Seventy Weeks (Dan 9:24-27), starting in October 1844 (cf. Dan 7:9-10, 13). And then God would actually end the persisting influence of this little horn power through the establishment of His Politically and Religiously remonstrating Kingdom of God. (Dan 8:25c = Dan 2:34-35; 44-45 = 2 Thess 2:8; cf. Dan 7:11-12, 14, 26-27). See more on Dan 8 on this dedicated website; and more on Dan 2 in this dedicated blog post.


            So each group of believers in these three sections of God’s Sanctifying Work have their part to do in God’s work, and like in the Three Levels in common education of “Elementary”/Primary (Heb 5:11-6:3), Secondary, and Tertiary level, each of these levels do build up on what has been priorly taught and established at the lower level, but do add much more definite and new understandings. So it can objectively be seen from here that God is indeed using all of these three Levels to accomplish His perfect work of Righteousness, and therefore it is not surprising to transpiringly see that: Christians would naturally draw most of their audience and converts from the unconverted world; SDA’s would naturally mostly draw from Christians; and the FSZC|NJK would naturally most draw from Sabbath+SOP adherents. So if each of these groups do their specialized work right, then this permitted facilitatingly gradual tiered system of God would be working just as it was necessarily envision/designed. It certainly does not mean that a higher level group is leaving out what was priorly taught just like High School Algebra cannot function by not including Elementary Level multiplications, nor College Calculus cannot ignore High School math.

[7] In that Seventh Day Sabbath -objecting sermon, Francis Chan makes [at 25:00-26:18 audio|video] the common claim of most Christians which is telling of the inherent ‘man|self-idolizing’ premise of Sunday Sacredness. It goes something like:

‘Christians are not to keep the Sabbath (on Saturday), but it is good to rest from work, so Christians should have a Sabbath’s Rest...on Sunday.’

            The whole comical thing about this is that, it was God Himself who knew that it was good for His followers to (also dedicatedly) rest, for a whole day, from all of their (laborious/secular) work. Indeed it is good for them physically, socially and psychologically. But much more than that God intended that “resetting” and self-bettering rest to also be Spiritually beneficial. And so, to that pointed Spiritual/Religious end, He also added related “resting” requirements that would help His followers, which now, i.e. in the New Covenant, are/include, ‘Israel-continuing Gentiles’ (Rom 11:11-24ff; =Isa 56:6-8) also enter into, and enjoy that other, and actually most significant, level of rest and rejuvenation. These were:

-holding a Holy, Worship, Convocation (Lev 23:3; Ezek 46:1-3)
-remembering/commemorating God as the Creator (Exod 20:11; Gen 2:1-3; Exod 31:12-17, 18; cf. Ezek 20:20; Rev 14:7; 10:6)
-trusting in God by resting from striving materially/commercially/economically (Jer17:19-27|Neh 13:15-22; Exod 23:12; 34:21; 35:2-3; [e.g. Exod 16:22-30; cf. 2 Chr 36:20-21])
-foregoing worldly/selfish pleasures (Isa 58:13-14a)*
-endeavoring to meet the needs of others (e.g. Matt 12:12; cf. Isa 58:6–7 ; cf. Deut 5:15)

* As expounded here[46:40-54:26], Paul himself also considered the “treading upon” of the Sabbath to be contrary to the “glorious gospel of the blessed God (to the uncircumcised) which he had been entrusted with” (1 Tim 1:11; Gal 2:7; cf. Rev 14:12) as he, and in order, highlightingly goes through the applicability of all of the 10 Commandments in 1 Tim 1:8-11 (cf. Rom 7:7-13)!

            Christians usually still stress, and adhere to, the first and/or second requirements, -although, pointedly the first one is merely used to get people to attend their Church Services on Sundays; but when it comes to those next four or three, -which, not surprisingly all, -as inherent in God’s Sabbath, dealing with making a sacrifice of self, and that towards the end of coming to the aid of others in need, including indirectly (e.g. Exod 23:10-11), these Christians prefer to do the completely contraring, “selfish”, thing, such as: shopping; enjoying personal/secular past times, diversions and entertainment; and not even, at the very least, incorporating the Spiritual principles involved in this Law, as it actually should be the case in God’s New Covenant, and, as Jesus templately instructed (Matt 5-7), even “Spiritually/Righteously way beyond” (2 Cor 3:4-18) what was “basically” required in the (exhaustively limited) “Letter of the Law”.
            And so, through this whimsically subjective observing of God’s Sabbath Law, even the adhered to requirement of work-rest is selfishly perverted to be merely for the purpose of a “holiday”, instead of a “Holy Day”, that it was meant by God to be.
            Ironically enough, the full-principled observance of God’s Sabbath, also including restoring it to the actual Day, Saturday, that it was meant to be observed, is the perfect/emblematic pervasive antidote for Francis Chan’s life-ministry message of : ‘stop loving, and striving for “material stuff”, and instead working to help other people in need.’ Indeed God’s Sabbath was always, -from, and throughout the OT,  meant by Him to be the upheld, anchoring “Religious/Moral/Spiritual” reason/mandate why His, thus “set-apart” (=Ezek 20:12, 20) followers are so ‘self-sacrificially ready and willing to do whatever is required to help others in Spiritual and/or Physical/Material need.’ The OT attempted to “tutoringly” (=Gal 3:23-25) inculcate these principles through Law, and Jesus in the NT, diffused them throughout the Believers experience, and yet without destroying, opposing or altering, as Christian have done with the Sabbath, the Letter of that Law (Matt 5:17-20). An approach which pursue this perfect, Christ endorsed (cf. Rev 19:7-9) Righteousness/“right-doing” either coming from a foundation of Law or Faith, but which conversely, ignores either Faith or Law, respectively, indeed, will only end up defeating itself. (Rom 3:31) The one calibrates the other. (Rom 7:7) (And calibratingly compare: Rom 4:1-6ff (~Luke 18:22-27) vs. James 2:21-26 (=Luke 18:18-21)) =Matt 5:48; cf. 19:21.
                   Succinctly summarized here, but as already, pertinently, elemently expounded upon throughout this blog, the comprehensive, overarching purpose of God’s is to assist in ultimately leading His People back to the perfect state of Temporal/Eternal Righteousness which existed before the fall. (=Heb 4:1-11, 12-13; cf. e.g., Rev 3:12; 19:7-9 = Rev 21:9-11ff) 

[8] Also seen in the intro here[00:12] which claims that ‘Barry Black is a “prophet” our (or “all”?) time’...Quite funny how non-SDAs who actually have not experience the genuine/full (NT) prophetic gift generally are quite satisfied with a “low-bar” standard for it, where, as many examples of claims can substantiate: God, through the Holy Spirit, simply impressing the thoughts of someone into thinking and doing something which turns out to be verified and helpful, -which actually is quite a common thing (See Barry Black’s Chaplaincy experience here[37:58-40:03]/here[23:20-25:46ff]; cf. here[36:05-39:39]; and e.g. David Gates’ in here; cf. my own here+here and also variously in here), is quite evidently deemed to be the (Full) Prophetic Gift. Yet that all merely is an introductory level of it which nonetheless begins to qualify as the fulfillment of what Paul desired for all believers (1 Cor 14:1, 29ff cf. 1 Thess 5:19-22); i.e., ‘that they now all also directly hear from God’ (cf. Isa 54:13|John 6:45; Heb 8:11|Jer 31:34). But it still remains, as repeatedly seen with NT prophets (e.g. Paul Acts 9:1-9; 26:19; 16:9-10; 18:9-10; Peter Acts 10:9-16; (cf. Acts 11:1-3, 4-10, 11-18); John Rev 1:1-2ff) that when someone is actually formally/officially functioning in God’s prophetic office, He does indeed still clearly ‘make Himself known to them in visions, and speaks to them in dreams’ (Num 12:6). -“(In Person) Mouth to mouth/face to face” meetings, as with Moses (Num 12:7-8; e.g. Exod 33:7-11) and/or through Michael, the Angel of the Lord (e.g. Exod 3:2ff|Acts 7:30-33; Jdg 6:11-13ff; Rev 1:1; cf. here; =Amos 3:7 (e.g. Gen 18:16-21ff; 20:7a) are the next, and highest forms of prophetic communicating, but are sparsely done. Evidently reserved for the most pivotal and/or confirmingly necessary circumstances. The determinative Spiritual fact is that God gives out this, and all Holy Spirit gifting(s) in direct correspondence to the honest “obedience”/faithfulness of the recipient (Acts 5:32; cf. Lam 2:9; Ezek 7:26)!


[9] The common, supposedly Biblical, objection of non-SDA Christians, and including some former SDAs (e.g. most notoriously Desmond Ford), to the Millerite-SDA claim that ‘Jesus begun an antitypical Day of Atonement High Priestly work in the Most Holy Place in October 1844’ has been the joint claims that: ‘Heb 6:19-20 indicates that Jesus had already entered beyond the veil’ & ‘Heb 9:8, 12's “holy place” actually speaks of the Most Holy Place’. Well the debunkingly correcting facts of the matter is that, for starters, in Israel’s Sanctuary Complex, there were actually 3 gateways for partitions which were similarly referred to as the “veil”. {Hebrew: #04359 masak (=“screen/covering”) & #06532 paroketh (=“veil/curtain”)*}. (As illustrated within here): There (1) was a “veil” for the “gate/gateway of the (Sanctuary’s surrounding) Courtyard”**; then (2) there was a “veil” for the “doorway of the Tabernacle” which was (secondarily) beyond the courtyard’s Bronze Altar of Burnt Offerings***; and then (3) there was a “veil” for the entrance into the MHP which was just beyond the Golden Altar of Incense inside the HP****. So when Paul is mentioning the “veil” in Hebrews, he is not “only” referring to the veil that was the entrance into the Most Holy Place, but actually, except in Heb 9:3; to the “veil” for the doorway of the Tabernacle. In fact in Heb 9:3-4, Paul is specific in pointing out exactly which veil that he was referring to, moreover, and also contra. that other common spurious/novice/amateurish objection from Heb 9:12 (ta agia) (cf. here), the veil of the “Holy of Holies” (Gr. agia agion) = MHP (cf. e.g. Exod 26:33-34; 2 Chr 3:8, 10; 4:22; 5:7 (LXX)). Indeed, Paul pointedly calls that veil the “second veil”, -manifestly not counting from the outermost courtyard gateway veil. (The claim from Heb 9:4 that agia agion also includes the Holy Place because the HP’s Altar of Incense is supposedly also listed there has been detailedly exegetically debunked here at the Rev 8:3 section by the fact that the Greek term there is pointedly referring to the Golden (smoking) “Censer” for that Altar which itself went into the Most Holy Place once a year.)

* Cf. the combining: “screening veil” in Exod 39:34; 40:21; Num 4:5.
** Exod 27:16ff; 35:17; 38:18; 39:40; 40:8, 33; Num 3:26; 4:26.
*** Exod 26:36-37; 35:15; 36:37; 39:38; 40:5-6, 28-29; Num 3:25; 4:25.
**** Exod 26:31-35; 27:21; 30:6; 36:35; 40:3, 21, 22, 26; Num 4:5; cf. Lev 4:6, 17; 16:2, 12, 15; 24:3. (This MHP veil was actually the only one with Cherubim (the highest order of angels) embroidered on it (Exod 26:31) as it represented the entrance into God’s Throne Room (cf. Isa 63:9; Luke 1:19; Rev 8:2-5)).

[10] And along with what has priorly been seen from the (fulfilled) prophecy of the “Little Horn”; its usurping of Christ’s Lordship (Dan 7:8b, 11) & High Priestly Ministry (Dan 8:10-12) and desecration of God’s Temple (Dan 8:13-14), (thus “the (Temple) body of Christ”, including, in extension, His (Representing/True) Church Body on Earth (Dan 7:25; 12:7 - Eph 4:12; 5:23)); the roots of this multi-faceted “NT Temple” desecrating apostasy were actually laid during the days of Apostolic Church, with the ‘God-hated’ “no law” teaching of the Nicolaitans. (=Rev 2:4-6; cf. Matt 22:34-40). Then following the post-Apostolic Era of Pagan Roman Persecutions on the Church (Rev 2:8-11), this “planted” false teaching came to bloom and be further entrenched in the “Compromising Third Church Era. (Rev 2:14-15). And by the Fourth Church Era (Rev 2:18-29) the (mainstream/“Universal”) NT Church (=the Catholic Church) had come to know the “deep things of Satan” (See more on this in the “First 4 Churches of Revelation” sections in here).
            And so, in those three steps of decline and apostasy in the First, Third and Fourth Era Churches, it is actually correspondingly seen how each of the 3 main pieces of furniture in the Holy Place of God’s Sanctuary establishment and its function/service were being successively desecrated and usurped. Namely:

1. True Church witness (lampstand & light) (Rev 2:4-6)
3. False teaching (table & showbread) (Rev 2:14-15)
4. Intercession (altar & prayers (directly) to God) False “Jezebelian” Cult = Deep Things of Satan (Rev 2:20-24)

-All producing the Theology/Belief and Practices “Babylonian” Confusion which exists through today, and which, since 1844 (cf. from here), God has been working to overturn. (Dan 8:13-14)

[11] And relatedly, the Rev 3:10 “hour of testing/temptation” that occurs within the Prophetic Sixth Era, is a likewise a specially carved out segment during which God will literally ‘shake the world off to either side of the fence that they may be now smugly straddling’ (=2 Thess 2:8-12); and that will have started by God’s “hour” of direct and defeating judgement upon the presently standing, and (mis-)leading, Babylon. (=Rev 18:10) Therefore, what is to fully transpire during that Sixth Era, is to be indeed typological of what will likewise be decisively/determinatively antitypologically taking place upon Christ’s Second Coming appearing.

            (And it may be that each “hour” which are mentioned throughout the scope of Revelation (namely 10 in: Rev 3:3, 10; 9:15; 11:13; 14:7, 15; 17:12; 18:10, 17, 19), may each be specific to one distinct part/segment of God’s overall “judging” process. And quite close to being the ‘total of “12 hours” which are in a day’ (John 11:9a), during which such correspondingly, salvific/redemptive, Kingdom-testifying work (cf. John 9:4), even into the “winding down” final hour (=Matt 20:1-16) towards fulfilling that ““day” of judgement” can rightly be done as there then is sufficient “light”. (John 11:9b-10) In fact the (sun rising) first, and (sun setting) last, hours may have been deliberately not cited/reckoned here as they are transitioning from darkness to light, and vice-versa.)

[12] And in my depicting directorial eye/mind, I can envision a cinematographic shot which is viewing Elijah praying from a ground angle, with the vast clear blue sky as a serene, seemingly benign happenstance, backdrop above Elijah’s head, and upon that very first petition for God to “answer him”, a contrastingly noticeable small glint of light is seen in the sky, which, by the end of Elijah’s sentence is clearly recognized to be furiously befallingly approaching ball of lightning, which, just as Elijah punctuates his sentence (PK 152.4), just emblazes the altar in an engulfing fireball (physic-ally, necessarily in the shape of a mushroom due to the instantaneous, massive consuming (1 Kgs 18:38a); and then another camera angle catches Elijah coming out (in slow-motion of course) of a cloud of mainly steamish airborne mist from the instantly transformed trench of water around the altar (1 Kgs 18:38b)...and while the people are fearfully, frantically engaged in their deliberately corresponding instant worshipping and acknowledging of God (1 Kgs 18:39)...Elijah, not to miss a beat, and before they even have a chance to process what has just happened, (and especially escapingly react), points to the (actually “unrepentant” PK 153.2; cf. Rev 9:20-21; 16:16) 850 false prophets and orders that they be seized...(1 Kgs 18:40ff; =background for: Rev 13:13; 19:20). Hazon Productions}

[13] And if this working-observation/theory is true, that would mean that the present/deploying Millennials, and especially post-Millennials generation(s) who are increasingly born and raised in an almost complete a-religious/Christian context will all be beyond and such supernatural intervention by God and it potentially could exponentially get much worse from then on.

[14] See a similar example in the calling (cf. here) & ‘appointing’ (=John 15:16) experience of, former best-selling-aspiring secular/fictional novelist (1979), but since/now, prolific (SDA) Christian writer/author/editor, Clifford Goldstein here[00:00-05:55ff] & here[20:43-40:21].

[15] It thus is quite ironic, shocking, and most disappointing to find out (see e.g. here[01:34:32-01:37:00]) that Eric Metaxas, -clearly impressed by scientific claims about available data/artifacts, does not, and ‘defaultly so’, believe in what is probably the (fundamentally) greatest miracle in all of the Bible, which is the ‘7-day recent (=young Earth) materially-suppliedvoice-activated & energetically-sustained Creation’ as clearly expressed in Genesis and throughout the Bible (e.g., Job 38:1-11ff; Psa 33:6-9; 148:1-6ff; Matt 19:4; Heb 11:3; cf. Rev 21) and all tangibly from & through Jesus Christ (John 1:3; Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2; Pro 8 - see here). Manifestly Metaxas (completely unScripturally) is a “Theistic Evolutionist” (cf. this (09-2013) discussion).* As Jesus said: ‘the Scriptures cannot be broken/loosen’ (John 10:35b)...it’s belief in all of it as all Truth’ (cf. 2 Tim 3:16) or really/effectively nothing at all. P.S. Although, as Metaxas relates in this Oct. 23, 2014 interview[18:52-25:46ff], in researching/writing his book Miracles,** he ‘newly encountered many amazing scientific facts and information’ which led him to pertinently write a couple of chapters on ‘the Miracle of Creation/Life/Universe’....And yet, going by this (Jan 2, 2015) post-publishing interview, Metaxas seems to still be hanging on to what actually is a Theological and Biblical (=Genesis 1-3) oxymoronic claim that: ‘God “created” by using an evolutionary process’!??*** 

* In fact, when you try to mix Biblical Theism with Evolution, then this Theologically utterly dissonantly flawed amalgamated view can, -if really believed and thus put in practice, only produce an Adolf Hitler & Nazism result. (Cf. e.g. here, here|here and here). And that is because this view inherently purports that God is perfectly accepting of, even “evidently” incontrovertibly dependent on, a survival of the fittest and natural (including human nature) selection model for arriving at a perfect creation, moreover where sin, death and suffering are part of His ideal for mankind. Frankly it is hard to get more blasphemous and heretical, -indeed “anathema” (Gal 1:6-9), than that...(Rom 5:12-21; cf. Ezek 18:23, 32)
-Perhaps the presentations here, then here, on: “How to think about science in the age of evolution” may be additionally Biblically rectifying and calibrating here....Post Script: In his March 4, 2016 show, Eric Metaxas (finally) engages, and openly so, a “Biblical Creationist”: Ken Ham (cf. here).

** And, by the way, do hear the, indeed “most freaky”, book-included miracle, shared by Metaxas here[01:02:21-01:07:50ff]!!

*** On his September 29, 2015 show Eric Metaxas interviewed “Old Earth Creationist” Hugh Ross of Reasons To Believe who, like Metaxas, believes that ‘God needed long ages of (evolutionary) time to “create”’ (contra. e.g. Psa 33:6-9 see here), and this amalgamated belief is evidently to try to accommodate the billion-long age of the Earth and Universe purported by Evolutionists. I was going to take some time to respond to Ross’s claims which are whimsically a-Biblical, indifferently picking and choosing only Scripture which he believes supports his views. And yet, succinctly debunked:

(1) The “days” of Gen 1&2 are clearly qualified by “evenings and mornings” thus are each 24 hours in duration.
(2) God cursed the serpent (and that more than the other animals) because the serpent had sinned (Gen 3:14)
(3) The New Creation of God will be the same that it was before sin and again on this Earth. Nothing more, nothing less (Rev 21:1-3)
(4) As discussed here, God had actually designed this planet and its creatures to be able to survive long enough in a context of falleness and sin (i.e. 6000-7000 years) so as to tangibly demonstrated to the whole Universe what a sinful course inevitably will unlivably end up in.

And the claims of Hugh Ross are roundly further debunked head on by actual Creationist Believers such as ICR; AIG; CMI (also here); among others.

For me personally, my Bible and Theological studies, e.g. from here have led me to see that there easily could be a long period of time between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2, where the 3 Distinct Persons Godhead, upon having decided to create living being, starting with angelic beings, had to make immediate and full use of the Divine Energy that God the Son was going to give over to realize this Creation, (and Himself taking on through a recreation the lesser form of a Mighty Angel: Michael), by converting that energy into all of the matter that presently exist, (and also ordering this Creation to survive and thrive according to laws of Renewability even while generously expanding.) Who knows how much time had elapsed between that Energy Bestowal and the Beginning of that Angelic Creation, or even between the accomplished Angelic Creation and Satan’s rebellion and then further the special organization of this already existing planet into a habitable place for human beings, but it could have been billions of years...
            ...and then again, it very well may be relatively few years and it is just that when God created using what I am seeing to be an energized hyper-accelerated growth and development (i.e. which could be completed withing 12-24 hours or less), the various elements which make it seem like matter is very old were also supernaturally aged during this hyper-acceleration process. So really it is best for a Bible-Believer/Christian to give God and the Bible any benefit of any doubt, and also first start with by doing proper Biblical/Exegetical/Theological studies which take into consideration and account ‘every word which has proceeded from the mouth of God’...certainly over any claim by “scientists” today. (=“Disguised Infidelity” 1SP 85.1-88.1ff).

            Just like Eric Metaxas should follow his evident Holy Spirit conscience prickling/goading (cf. Acts 26:14b) to look more into the defense of the Bible’s Creation account by Young Earth (6000 years) Creationist, -and pertinently enough here: of which, i.e. Biblical Creationism, the Sabbath is a memorial of (Gen 2:2-3; Exod 20:11; he should likewise pursue that (Holy Spirit) “conviction” expressed here[49:47-50:29] that Christians should observe the Sabbath better, which of course only is the Biblical Seventh Day Sabbath, because as Metaxas has rightly come to perceive and understand, it is God’s way of ‘distinguishingly “marking” His People’ (=Exod 31:12-17; Ezek 20:12, 20 = “sanctifyingly” ‘setting them apart’), for that is Theologically and Prophetically the actually incontrovertible, applicable case as the Seventh Day Sabbath, especially when “fully” comprehended, is God’s Seal and is in direct contrast to the Mark of the Beast.
            But, graciously enough by God (=Ezek 11:16) given how He foresaw how Satan would act to slyly pervert this key Biblical Truth (e.g. Dan 7:25), God has allowed for Christians who presently do not know or understand the Truth about the Sabbath, to equivalent “backdoor” their way into arriving at the full truth here as God’s Sabbath, as amply demonstrated by Jesus, is also observed by extending its socio-economic blessings upon others in need (=Isa 58). When either aspects of the Sabbath is observed, i.e., its doctrinal aspect or its socio-economic one, but especially when both are observed, then God can, will and indeed has, grant(ed) a “sealing” portion of His Holy Spirit to seal the observer into this pivotal Gospel Truth ‘so that they cannot be moved’. (LDE 215-233ff)
            So on one hand, SDA’s are wrong and short-changing themselves by not having more fully/tangibly and systematically pursued the socio-economic imperatives of God’s Sabbath, and on the other hand, Sunday-Keeping Christians are likewise wrong and short-changing themselves by not observing Sabbath on the right day, and in the Biblical way. Only the newly established Remnant Church (=Rev 14:1-5) of the NJK Project (=Rev 15:2) is fully integrating those Biblical and Full understandings of God’s Sabbath and it thus is no surprise that God has imparted a further and sealing (=Rev 3:12) portion of His Spirit towards both confirming and guiding this (Kingdom of God) Biblical (Rev 7:1-3ff) and (Millennium’s) Prophetic (Rev 19 & 20) endeavor. And not surprisingly, it is Sunday-Sacredness and/or Capitalism which are keeping either group of Christians here for fully ascribing to this “Full Sabbath Truth”; hence why these heresies constitute, especially jointly, the “(Full) Mark of the Beast”.

[16] Quite interesting that the above cited David Gates has been calling on people to ‘live by (extreme) Faith’ and Francis Chan (in my Spiritual opinion: “the David Gates of/for (mainly) non-SDA’s”) has been calling people to ‘live by (radical/Biblical) Love’. So that above-defined symbolism of “gold” as “Faith and Love combined...” (=2T 36.2) is presented through their ministries...and actually “combined” in Eric Metaxas’ ministry and that for the Political-Conservative Christian, as well as wider general/secular, audience, -which includes unchurched Christians, that he is targetedly potentially reaching and influencing, especially now with his radio talk show. Quite pertinent enough as the greatest of testimony that can be given to unbelievers is a genuine unity in faith (Matt 28:20; Eph 4:5) and love (Rom 13:8-10; 1 John 4:7-14ff; Gal 5:13-14) by/from Believers (John 17:23).
[17] In a similar way with Metaxas, I am seeing that the clinchingly convicting dream in Kirsten Powers’ conversion experience that the statement by Jesus to her saying: “Here I am” also has a dual meaning/application. The first of course being, as with Metaxas, the obvious understanding of ‘Jesus being true, real and also accessible’; but Secondarily, and in regards to future ministering work, this could very well be a direct quoting of Isa 6:8b with Jesus here indicating, as with His usage of this passage in Matt 13:10-17 (cf. John 12:39-41), that, -as discussed and resolved from/in this post: although His message was one of love & mercy, it is also one which involves justice & judgement (=Matt 10:34-38; cf. Rev 6:3-4; 19:11-16).Meaning that, with Kirsten Powers having, prior to her conversion, and also thereafter, been involved in various human rights issues (e.g., in here & here), as with Metaxas’ dream, it is only when one full incorporates and intertwines the full counsel of Christ’s and His Word’s (Heb 4:12-13) teaching and warnings/counsels also in these issues handling them as more then just mere human/civil rights issues (e.g. this one), that true, God’s own: Joy (John 15:10-11; 17:13-17), Love (1 Cor 13:6) Peace (John 14:25-27) and Freedom (John 8:31-38) will be attained.

P.S. And subsequently exercised Biblical exegesis here corroborates the Spiritual “hunch” as the same Hebrew word/expression in Isa 6:8 which is translated as “Here am I” (as also in Isa 65:1) is the very same that is translated as “Here I am” in the rest of the (NASB) Bible (e.g. Gen 22: 1, 7, 11; 27:1, 18; Exod 3:4; 1 Sam 3:4-6, 8; 2 Sam 1:7; Isa 58:9). That Hebrew expression is Strongs #2009 =“hinneh” (994 occurrences in the OT) which is straightly translated as: “Lo (KJV)/Behold”. And actually it is only the “Here” portion in its translations which is not supplied as both “I am” or “am I” are added to provide a better rendering in English.
            The meaning of this term also really is in the sense of “Lo and Behold” in that, it seems to me to be an expression which try to focus the seemingly non-attentive attention of some to a quite obvious fact either before them or now available to them. So, as seen in the verses above, when it is someone who is responding to a calling or summons, it has the underlying connotation of: ‘of course I would answer you and “lo and behold” here I am indeed’.
            And along these lines of this notion in that statement, -which also further indeed involves: “open your eyes and see what the reality that’s right in front of you” (cf. Exod 32:9), the translation in Isa 6:8 as “Here am I” which implies a questioning, as if Isaiah is petitionly and politely volunteering his services to the Godhead who is looking for ‘someone to go for them’, but really the translation here should also be as with the other more attention remonstrating ones of “Here I am” thus meaning that Isaiah was surprised that the Godhead was still (i.e., after his forgiveness/cleansing of Isa 6:4-6) wondering: ‘who, (in literally the world) can we send for us (thus as a prophet)’ and he responded by forthrightly volunteeringly saying “Here I am” which essentially meant: “Hey.... What are you meaning??...I’m right here!!!!”.
            So, from those exegetical elements, it can be easily seen that in the personal application of that exegetically identical element in Kirsten’s dream that Jesus was, (and that, in response to Kirsten’s attempting during that time to, as her then boyfriend had counselled her, to ‘ask Jesus to manifest Himself to her’, because, -(see in her brief testimony relating referenced here) even after, by then in late 2006 having become somewhat intellectually convinced by the truthfulness of Christianity, was still not yet “convicted”), “vividly”/forcefully essentially saying to her: ‘What more do you need. “Here I am”. Open your eyes to the truth that you have learned: I am right here!!’. [Update: Since, -i.e. (officially) as of October 10, 2015, Kirsten Powers has made the “sad, bad and unBiblical” decision to (adult-)convert to Roman Catholicism. (See here+here; +cf. News story e.g. here, here, here and here)].
            And in regards to the secondary application stated above, pointedly in the pivotal light that Kirsten, as she published here and still holds (see within here), actually is ascribing to a supposed, but spurious “Christian” (=2 Tim 3:1-5, 3:16-4:5; 1 Tim 4:1-2) claim that ‘homosexuality is sanctified by gay marriage’ and thus that God will not judge that “marriage bed” (cf. Heb 13:4), well, as discussed in this post section, the actual, accurate and Theological teaching of the Full Bible on this subject clearly debunks that heresy born purely from secular humanism. And so, as stated above, Jesus, who is that Judge, is “secondarily” also telling to Kirsten, i.e., for the ministry application part of that calling revelation, that He is also a God who will judge sin and its clinging to sinners when the present period of provided probationary grace, -during which people are, as involved in John 8:1-11, permitted by God to fully live out their lives and try to overcome sin in their life, including against Capital Sins = “Abominations” such as homosexuality, adultery & Sabbath Breaking, will have been ended (Rev 22:10-16; 21:26-27; 1 Cor 6:9; Heb 13:4b). And it by now can be most clearly seen that the judgement for homosexuality which God quite specially dealt on the pagan cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which indeed is typifying of God’s Final Hell Judgement on such and all sinners (2 Pet 2:6-10); -a, by the way, final judgement that Jesus ‘can’t wait to kindle & execute’ (Luke 12:49; Rev 6:16-17; Luke 19:27; Rev 14:9-11); was to make it indeed crystal clear that He would not be finding this abominable sin as acceptable.
            The Spirit of God can “mind-renewingly” change any sinful dispositions, tendencies and proclivities, including homosexuality. So rather than “supporting” people into becoming most deeply entrenched in this abomination through “supposedly God-sanctifying marriage”, Kirsten should be using her opportunity and “pulpit” to help these people to, “fearfully if necessary”,  seek the inwardly changing grace and power over sin made most manifest in Christ’s Gospel as now dispensed to all those who would received it through the Holy Spirit. Now, pointedly in this ever sin-deluded age, is not the time to be effectively “ashamed of Christ and His Gospel” (Mark 8:34-38; Rom 1:16-18ff).

            If one fully believes the Gospel, then it should be most evident that the best way to “help” gay people is in helping them also see that liberating Truth and light (John 8:32) and not, and that under some delusion of Biblical validity, pushing them further into this sinful ditch. (Cf. Matt 5:17-20) (See (e.g.) the Stephen and Irene Bennett: personal experience&testimony and ministry on the LBGTQ issue.)


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